With More Than Fashion: Live from the Gallery East Reunion 2010 about to be released by their new, supportive label Bridge Nine, marking the first DYS record (not counting compilations or re-releases) of any kind since their 2nd, self-titled Lp , I spoke with vocalist Dave Smalley and bassist Jonathan Anastas via conference call on August 4th, 2011. The below contains the first 50 or so minutes from the interview. Unfortunately, the last half hour or so wasn’t recorded, so this has been lost. I think that the below is long enough and that fans will get a really good idea of what DYS has been up to and that fans and curious newcomers will get a sense of who they were, who they are and where they’re going from here.
Since last year, DYS has played several more shows and have also recorded some new material with new guitarist Franz Stahl of Scream! Read on about this unlikely, but so far very productive and fruitful reunion!
Thanks to Stephanie Marlow for setting this up and to Dave and Jonathan for taking time out of their busy schedules to talk to me.
The black and white photos were taken by Tim Gray and the photo of Franz Stahl was taken by Christopher Z.
So how did DYS first get together? You guys all met at college, right?
Jonathan Anastas: Dave was at college in BC (Boston College) and I was a sophomore in high school and the rest of the guys were local to Boston as well. So Dave was really the only person in the college experience when DYS started. Andy Strahan was one of the core Boston Crew guys. He was a roadie forSS Decontrol and in fact it was Al Barile who suggested that he play guitar for DYS.
The first question is this. We were just talking about the origins of the band. I wanna take it to the present day and not have it be all about the past. I’m wondering what the genesis of the reunion was and what sparked interest from you and Dave. How did it come about and why you decided to do it after 25 years?
JA: It was interesting. We said no to a lot of reunions over the years and we’d been talking about going to Europe in 2009 and started rehearsing and the final details didn’t work out, but what was important to us about this was the movie All Ages – A Boston Hardcore Film (directed by Drew Stone and Duane Lucia) and specifically about the Gallery East reunion show footage that they put into the film. It was important two-fold. First, the Gallery East was run by people who were really important to the Boston hardcore scene. It felt important to support something that had supported us through the years. Secondly, so little of that Boston hardcore scene was captured on film. Video technology wasn’t as portable as it is today and certainly you didn’t have cell phones with video cameras in them, so the opportunity to be part of a 6 camera HD shoot was the other big driver. We went into it with a one-off attitude. We were gonna walk away with an incredible 6-camera recording of the band and we had a chance to give back to our scene. The reaction coming out was so strong that we re-thought that one-off approach and said “is there a path here to importance, to relevance and to bringing this back”. We were surprised by the demand for it and we wanted to explore that.
Did you feel any extra pressure knowing that your very first reunion show would be released by Bridge Nine?
JA: There was no live record deal in place when we agreed to do the show. However, anytime you reform a band, the fact that it was being recorded and was in front of a live audience, you’re performing in front of our hometown crowd and all the people you came up with and who are most important to you, there’s an unbelievable amount of pressure because you wanna live up to the commitment that you have to all those people. We took the preparation for the show really seriously. We rehearsed a lot and re-thought the songs a lot as well, but I’m not sure if it was the recording medium that increased the pressure. It was more about “these are the most important people in our lives” and we wanted to deliver for them.
Dave Smalley: I totally agree with all of that. I’ve played on a lot of festival bills, so the numbers weren’t scary for me. It was more what Jon said about playing in front of people who we love and deeply care for and who have been there for us our whole lives. It’s not just our friends, but people who have been part of our families for so long. It’s like when a kid wants to impress his parents, he’s at his happiest, and so it’s that kind of thing. I didn’t wanna let any of our fans down. I’ve always said with any band that I do, do it right or don’t do it at all. And let’s be honest. DYS has a very good and important legacy and so I wanted to do it right and that’s why we held out for so long.
Is it difficult to get together because you’re on opposite coasts? I know you recorded some new material recently as well, so was that tough, too
DS: Jonathan has been really instrumental in the organization sense. I think every band needs someone to take care of that stuff and he’s very, very good at that.
JA: Well thanks. I won’t take too much credit here. Technology has really made it possible. I mean here we are doing this interview on a conference call. We had weekly or bi-weekly conference calls during the weeks before the Gallery East shows. I was lucky enough because of my business travel to be on the East Coast quite a bit, so we would plan rehearsals around that. The cost of air travel has fallen and it was an important commitment. We’re communicating by e-mail and sending digital files back and forth. Technology has made physical space disappear and I think that’s as true of music as anything else.
DS: There’s an old saying. It’s a cliché, but a true one. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. If you think about it in a different way, in the early ‘80s for a hardcore band and especially for a straight-edge band facing additional pressure in terms of not conforming to society’s standards on that level, it was unbelievable in terms of the odds we faced in even forming a band and all bands were like that at the time from Black Flag to whoever. Even finding a place to practice was tough and finding a place to play was tough as well. That’s why there were so many classic shows, and this is particularly true for DYS, in VFW halls and stuff like that. The odds were really high against a band like us back then and maybe even greater than they are now being on opposite coasts. We were chased by cops, chased by jocks, non-stop conflict, so in a way technically we have these challenges in our logistics now but in a way there’s a lot less than they were back then.
I saw that you recorded 3 new songs (Note: One of them is called “Sound of Our Town”). Is this for a future release?
JA: I think we’re really looking at what’s the best way to get music released and into the hands of our fans in 2011, 2012. I have no problem sharing what I think we’ll do as long as nobody holds me to it. I don’t think fans sit around for bands to collect and polish and furnish 10 or 12 songs over a year in the studio and sort of present it to the world and “look at my polished gem”. People are consuming singles, not albums. I’d like to get them out there as soon as possible, focusing on digital distribution channels, some combination of free and paid, where some we’ll just put out there for our fans for free and it’s like a great feedback loop for our writing and playing process. We’ve got a really supportive label in Bridge Nine. They’re launching iPhone apps and they support digital and physical releases. They’re open to what the best way to get heard is today and we’ll work with them to get our material out. Our goal is to put them out as soon as possible and in a way where it’s easiest for our fans, new and old, to access them.
Have you also recorded the Motörhead cover (“(We Are) The Road Crew”) you perform live?
DS: Yes. My love of that song has ironically grown since we did that cover. I can honestly say that Motörhead is one of my top 5 favorite bands of all-time and that I was seriously star struck when Down by Law played with them at a festival and I got to meet Lemmy.
They should’ve interviewed you for that documentary (Lemmy).
DS: I would’ve loved to have been in any documentary with him. There’s that whole image of “everything louder than everything else” and “march or die”, but the truth of the matter is that Motörhead is a really good band. What people may not realize is that their songs are really complex. It’s not just 3 chords and you got it down. It’s very complex to keep that level of musicianship and mixed with that level of power. They wrote the book on that to a certain degree. The more we’ve done that song and approaching that as musician and as a fan, covering that song was like “wow, this is amazing”.
I look forward to hearing that. The next question is about Franz Stahl, your new guitar player, and how he came to join the band
JA: Here’s what I’ll say about being in a band. There are always a lot of dynamics going on. One is musicianship, another is the ability to gel like sometimes you get a super group of musicians but they don’t gel and the third is just like can you spend 8 hours in a van with them? Can you spend 6 hours with them flying on a plane to a festival? It was important to both me and Dave that all of these boxes were checked out. The thing was Franz was almost kismet. Franz and Dave have a relationship going back to DC and me and Franz ended up as neighbors and we met each other again after not talking to each other for years. This was about 5 years ago and even then we were talking to each about asking “can we do something together”, so when the opportunity arose for a guitar slot in DYS, it just seemed natural and Franz was into it, we were into it. He checks all of those boxes 1000%.
DS: I agree with all of that and I’ll add that any fan of American hardcore will acknowledge is that Scream is probably one of the most unique bands from that time period and genre. They’ve got an all-star lineup with Pete Stahl being one of my favorite singers, Skeeter Thompson being an amazing bass player and so on. I’ve long been a huge fan of their vibe and what they do and so it’s a huge delight and honor to play with Franz. I’ve liked him as a person and as a fan for many years, so it’s really a thrill. Also, I think he adds a huge dynamic to DYS.
JA: On a lot of levels. People have seen the live dynamic he adds, but they haven’t heard the writing element yet. He adds really smart arrangement ideas to the new material and he’s put his awesome musical fingerprint on the new music.
How long has he been in the band now?
JA: We’ve been rehearsing since May, so it’s been 3 months now.
How did the spot come up?
JA: There was no grand plan or drama or anything, but everyone is juggling their day jobs, their family lives and their musical passions. It just got to the point where the last lineup we had a lot of life commitments. We think the world of them musically and personally, but Kevin (who was replaced by Franz) spends 200 days a year on the road with the Dropkick Murphys and that’s how he makes his living. I have to have respect for that. The ability to provide for their family and their lives and to chase their musical dreams is something I would never want to stand in the way of. It got to the point where we had to think about what’s best for everyone involved given their various priorities.
DS: I think that’s really true. I said to Kevin when we realized that there was just too much going on with the Dropkick Murphys schedule and the DYS schedule, which by the way was grown. Don’t forget that when we did that initial reunion show last August, our original plan wasn’t to record new songs and to play more shows. It was just to do this one show for our friends. When I talked to Kevin, though, it was like “you’re in for life, you realize that, right?” and he said “I know” with the idea being once a member of the DYS family and crew, always a member. I’ve always taken that with conviction. It’s unlike any other musical scene I’ve ever seen in terms of the dedication that the Boston bands have for each other. Those guys are lifers as far as I’m concerned and as you get older, one of the things you learn is that even though this is how things are at point x, that isn’t necessarily how it’s going to be at point y and you might be back with somebody you might have never imagined you would be. I would say that the players we got back together with last August are part of my heart and part of the band’s family.
I wanted to ask you about the song “Circle Storm”. When you play it live, you introduce it as a song about combating racism, sexism, homophobia and greed. Was there a particular incident that inspired you to write it or is it just more of a general philosophy or attitude?
JA: I don’t think it was a specific event. It’s not the story of this day. It’s more of a culmination of events, especially when you consider our age at the time. We weren’t sophisticated writers but via the power of youth, we were great channelers of emotions and channelers of the moment. It was a culmination of the scene, how I felt about hardcore, how I felt about Sunday afternoons, how I felt about a place that to the outside world, looked unbelievably violent and nihilistic but where I never felt safer at those Sunday afternoon shows in the pit. And that experience was probably pretty universal as far as gay kids in the scene or black kids in the scene in that it looked so violent, but really it was protective. So for example, Dave can punch me in the head, but no one else can punch Dave.
DS: What I love about that song is that there are, and I love there will always be, songs against stupidity, which to me any “ism” is. Homophobia or sexism or racism, those are ignorant views in my opinion because you can’t judge anyone by a category. You have to get to know someone as an individual and then you can decide if that someone is a good person or someone you don’t care to be with and it shouldn’t be based on who they like in bed or whatever. What I also like about that song is that it a minute and a half of to-the-point targeting of stupidity mixed with what Jonathan said which is how our unity can be an arrow with which we can possibly pierce some of that stupidity. I really love that it’s so focused. It’s like an arrow going in and piercing the armor of people’s stupidity. That’s why it’s so direct and powerful. It’s like a punch in the fact to the pointlessness of life and trying to remember why we’re all here. Ultimately, what punk rock is about to me is making a difference in the world. Otherwise, if I’m not gonna try to make a difference in the world, I might as well go out and form a pop band or something and try to make money, but that’s not what music is to me. What I love about punk rock is that it’s trying and sometimes succeeding in making the world a better place and fighting these things. You only got 70 or 80 years and you start becoming more aware when you’re 13 or 14 and maybe you spend your last 10 years drooling in an old folks’ home, so you’ve got a total of maybe 60 years total max to make a dent. For those two minutes, I think that song helps to make a dent that lasts far longer than its duration.
I know that Bob Mould and the other members of Hüsker Dü were friends with you guys and sang backup vocals on Brotherhood. I was wondering how you met those guys and how that came to be.
JA: The connection is Lou Giordano, who produced and engineered Brotherhood and who ended up working with Hüsker Dü for years. I have to give Lou a lot of credit here. At a time when we were super passionate about a rather narrow set of musical views, Lou’s view was much, much broader. He had already been working with Hüsker Dü at that point and when they were playing in Boston, he just took them to Radiobeat, the studio which was the hub of alternative music recording at the time. Thus, he introduced us and the whole thing was his idea. I just remember us having a really interesting conversation with them. One of their members asked us “is it true that audience members knock beers out of people’s hands in Boston” or that people are gonna hold us down and cut out hair or something. They were genuinely worried about the reputation of the city that they’d just walked into.
DS: My fondest memory of them was as 3 guys from Minneapolis who wrote flannel shirts and loose-fitting t-shirts and sort of shaggy hair and then you had these 4 or 5 guys all with shaved heads or closely-cropped hair, white Adidas sneakers, combat boots and torn jeans and we really liked each other as people and as musicians and that’s key. To this day, I frankly still love Hüsker Dü. The great thing is that you were on the same team. There were so few of us back then that you realized that these guys, whoever they were, it could’ve been Minor Threat and SSDecontrol, another good example because Al Barile and Ian MacKaye were good friends despite being from different cities with different approaches to sound and things like the pit and what not. We were all on the same team and the team was outnumbered on every front by the cops and the jocks and the isms of the world and the thousands of people who just wanted to hear Madonna or whoever was big at that time. We were all in the together and the joyful thing to me about DYS and Hüsker Dü working together was that there was this innate, unspoken acknowledgment that we’re in this together and that there’s a lot of commonality and that we’re trying to get to that place. It was a joyful collaboration. When Hüsker Dü came to Boston on another trip, they were playing “Diane”, which is a tragic song but a beautiful song.
To me, it’s a great song, but very creepy.
DS: Anyway, Bob looked at me and nodded his head in a way to signify “get up here” and so I got up there and sang on “Diane” and did the harmonies. Bob was nodding his head and saying “yeah” and maybe he doesn’t even remember it. It might not have been a big moment for him, but it was a big moment for me. Again, it was great to share ideals and values and missions. His partner was friends with my wife in LA. I think they’d known each other from some design perspective, so we kind of used to keep tabs on each other but we all moved to different areas and lost touch.
Are there plans to re-release the original records on vinyl or in other physical or digital formats?
JA: There was a period of time where I lost track of things, but when I look back at it, I think that Taang! made some decisions that I didn’t agree with. In hindsight, if I’d known that we’d be active again, I would’ve been much more active in monitoring things. Fire and Ice, while it was good to get both records out there and in print on one CD, was confusing to people. I think that at a certain point, I’d like to see the 1st 2 records put out on vinyl and digitally with the exact same track order as the original releases. Brotherhood is actually still on iTunes and I asked Taang! to take Fire and Ice down until we figure out how to deal with that so it’s less confusing to people. I’m more interesting in focusing forward now, though, in terms of what we’re doing.
I noticed that on the new live record More Than Fashion: Live from the Gallery East: Reunion 2010, the songs from the self-titled second album don’t sound that different from the earlier material. I really like how they came out and there doesn’t seem to be as much distance as there is between the studio records, at least to my ear.
DS: Thank you. We worked really hard on that. The thing about the 2nd Lp is that a lot of people loved it and a lot of people didn’t. I’m sort of still proud of that 2nd record in one sense, which is that very few bands (you can probably count them on one hand) would have been stupid but daring enough to try that album back in 1984. I’m kind of proud of us for that, but however now that we’ve approached it with a little more distance, we’ve really toughened and tightened them up and gotten rid of the 5-minute solos and as you say, I think it does work better now.
JA: We also worked hard on the 1st Lp songs, too. That record was recorded with one guitar player, so we had to work on both sets of arrangements, too.
Is that more what you’d intended the 2nd record to sound like back then?
JA: I would have to say no just because, like it or hate it, the production on that record was reflective of its time. I think if we were guilty of anything, it was leaning too heavily on the production styles of that era, the Phil Collins-style big, treated drums. I can’t sit back here and say that in the ‘80s I wanted it to sound like what it would sound like today since I think that how we expect production to sound has changed a lot.
DS: I think that we may have over thought the production back then, honestly, but now more it’s like a fist to the face which is always more what DYS was about.
