Photo by Matt Dessner
Talk about perfect timing. With everything swirling in America right now, a new Fishbone album isn’t just welcome, it’s essential. For nearly four decades, Angelo Moore has been an unwavering voice, his fingers on the pulse of both present and past, fearlessly tackling societal and political themes with raw truth and soul based on the reality of his surroundings. Since the ’80s, Fishbone’s explosive fusion of ska, funk, punk, and hard rock has been a groundbreaking force, inspiring countless bands along the way.
Now, after a seventeen-year wait, Fishbone’s first full-length album since 2006, the aptly titled Stockholm Syndrome, has arrived (Read Dave Franklin’s review here). (Yes, there have been three killer EPs in between, including their excellent 2023 self-titled release, which I chatted about with Chris Dowd.) Featuring the legendary Moore on vocals and saxophone, Dowd on keyboards and trombone, James Jones on bass, Hassan Hurd on drums, John “JS” Williams on trumpet, and Tracey “Spacey T” Singleton on guitar, this album is a powerful, and long overdue, return for one of the most innovative and creative bands of our time.
As someone who’s been dreaming of this conversation since my writing career kicked off in 1991, I couldn’t have been more thrilled to log into Zoom and find the enigmatic, charismatic, and always electrifying Angelo Moore ready to connect.
You’ve been doing this for over 45 years. You’ve seen a lot in your time. Generally, are things easier today or were they easier back in the day?
ANGELO: When you say “easier,” there’s a lot of definitions and descriptions of what easier is. Recording is easier with technology now because you record anywhere. You can record in a closet, somebody’s garage, in the living room, or in the studio with modern technology. I use Logic. I remember before all these different recording programs were even around. I remember being in the studio and seeing the two-inch tape machine spinning around. Now they have the whole studio, a 24-track soundboard and everything, all of that is in a computer that you can put in your backpack. It wasn’t like that then. So, when it comes to that, yes, it’s easy.
What about being on the road?
ANGELO: It’s always easier when you’re in a bus. It’s not that easy when you’re in a van. When you get to fly, that’s real easy, but it’s way more expensive. Ain’t a lot of flying for us.
For this summer tour you’re on with Less Than Jake, is it a van tour or a bus tour?
ANGELO: This one’s going to be a bus tour. We just finished a European tour, a tour in France, this past month. It was the Fishbone – Escape America Tour, promoting some of the songs on the new album, Stockholm Syndrome. We were traveling in a van over there with nothing less than five-hour drives. Sometimes it gets uncomfortable, and you get uncomfortable. It gets tight and a little claustrophobic. I guess that’s just what comes along with the amount of money you’re making, especially not having been over there for a long time. We had to start to rebuild a brand, but we had sold-out shows every night after not being over in France for a couple of years. Other than that, it’s just been a really long time span in between, and then between records. I don’t even know if the last record did good or not, because I don’t pay attention to that. I just pay attention to the live show and what it takes to make the live show happen the best that it can happen. All that other stuff around it, I don’t really look at.
I was looking at Setlist.fm and it looks like you played a wide variety of songs from your entire catalog on that tour of France. You were playing a couple of songs from many different albums rather than heavily focusing on one. Are you in a good position career wise?
ANGELO: I’m in a good position because we’re getting ready to put out another record, and we just did that tour in Europe. We even did a tour before that one with the new lineup. We got a whole new lineup of guys, with the exception of Chris Dowd and Spacey T, which we call Fishbone Special Forces.
On the summer tour, you are on a package bill and won’t have as much time as you do when you’re headlining. Will you be focusing on the new record?
ANGELO: We don’t have a lot of time, unfortunately. So we’re going to be stretching our songs out throughout the different shows, because we don’t get the full headline slot. Our slot is just enough time to put the message out there and make our presence known.
We’re going to do some stuff from the new record and some stuff from the earlier records too. You can’t leave any of that out. We couldn’t do everything anyway—it’s just way too much—but we’re going to touch on a lot of what we’ve done over the years, just so people can get a taste of where we’ve been, where we are now, and what we’re getting ready to do.
When you were on a major label, did you ever get pressure from the label to focus on new material after releasing an album or have you always had the freedom to play whatever you want?
ANGELO: I remember getting pressure from the record company telling us we needed to write something more poppy, more contemporary. But our heads really weren’t there. It was almost like they were asking us to sell out. We wanted to do what we felt was right, what it was all about when it came to us—the band, our outlook on society and the world we live in. That transferred into our music and lyrics. The record company wasn’t really understanding or feeling some of that. They wanted us to soften up what we were doing so the masses could relate. Our outlook was, either you like us or you don’t.
You’ve always been very blunt with your feelings, and I’ve always appreciated that. Personally, I feel like things might be the worst they’ve ever been in my lifetime when thinking about politics. I’m not very confident about the future. Do you feel like the world has evolved or are you still dealing with the same problems and hurdles that you faced when Fishbone started in 1979?
ANGELO: Matter of fact, it’s even worse. A lot of the stuff we wrote back in the day, even stuff from 8 or 10 years ago—that shit is coming true now. All the doom and destruction lyrics, all the stuff about racism, dysfunction in society and families, mental health issues—we wrote about it, hoping it wouldn’t come into fruition. You’d hope writing music about that would help steer society in a better direction, but it didn’t. It went down that road anyway.
So here we are. We’ve got the white devil in the White House. He’s a racist piece of shit. That’s the name of our first single from this record, actually. And the second single is called “Last Call in America,” which, unfortunately, is what it’s looking like—if we as a people in this country don’t do something about the asshole that’s in the White House. He doesn’t care about anybody but himself and his rich motherfuckers around him. It’s all about what they want, not what the people want.
Trump is a joke. One of the greatest entertainers on the planet, but his motives aren’t good at all—just like the Joker’s motives weren’t good. But everybody likes the Joker. You just don’t let him out of the TV and into your living room, sitting on the couch next to you.
I feel like this happened because America is a really big entertainment culture. We’ve got Hollywood, TV, some of the craziest movies out there. We’re in the running with the best when it comes to fantasy—dark fantasy, too. But it’s still fantasy, right?
It keeps people captivated, and a lot of people can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. That’s one of the reasons why Trump is here—because people can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. That’s why the Joker’s out of the TV and on the couch next to us.
I didn’t vote for that dude. As much as he made me laugh, as absurd as he is, if you know the difference between reality and fantasy, that’s the guy you don’t vote for. That’s the guy you get entertained by.
That’s a great way to put it. If what we’re living through now was the plot of a movie, we’d be like, “This movie is crazy. No way would a guy like that ever be the leader of the free world.” I just don’t get it. It’s not that hard to be a good person.
ANGELO: It shouldn’t be hard. But, you know what? I think there’s more than just humans in our world. I think it’s monsters. I think it’s lizard people. I think it’s aliens. I think it’s all that other shit. Because you got spirits, you got angels and devils, and everything else in our world other than just humans.
With all that interference—whatever it is, spirits, energy, monsters, whatever—it’s hard for people to differentiate between fantasy and reality. A lot of humans get taken, man. And a lot of people have very different interpretations of what truth is, or what good and bad even mean.
You’ve got racists and Klan members who genuinely believe what they’re doing is good. Trump thinks making America great again is good. But for someone who looks like me, with my ancestry and my skin color, America back then wasn’t good at all. Yeah, it brought good music and art and some liberating moments—but also genocide, death, destruction, and racism. Racism is a disease of vanity. It’s thinking, “My color looks better than yours, so I’m better than you. And you just don’t need to be here.” That’s why we put out “Racist Piece of Shit.” That’s our single.
And guess what? “Racist Piece of Shit” got banned because the people in power—the Uppers, the oligarchs—they don’t want anyone revealing who they really are. They don’t want anyone speaking out about them. They just want to look good. Zuckerberg came on the internet one day saying, “We want people to be able to speak their minds because this is supposed to be a place of freedom.” I thought, okay, cool. I’ve definitely got something to say.
I don’t always say it publicly—I’ve got too much music to make, too much positivity to spread. But every once in a while, I have to look over at that big fucking monster in the room. The elephant that’s definitely there. And when I do, it becomes my muse. I write it all down, put music behind it. Sometimes I make a video. I know how to use Final Cut Pro, man—I can put words and graphics and bling behind my messages. So I put my two cents in. It’s called Dr. MadVibe’s Black Observation of White Power in America. I posted some of those ads on Facebook. Probably Instagram, too. And I got flagged—for dangerous material.
So I went back online after a while and asked, “How come everybody else gets to say what they want, but when I say something, I get blocked?” What’s dangerous? What’s in the White House right now is dangerous. America is under attack. Maybe not with bombs dropping, but it’s still happening. Just look at what’s going on in Gaza, in Ukraine. It’s not that bad here yet, but it could be.
And if we don’t do something soon, if Trump becomes fully successful in selling out America to the Russians, then yeah—bombs will be falling here too. That’s how it works. That’s what they do.
I watch all this stuff on TV, Gaza, Ukraine, Israel bombing God knows who, and it’s painfully obvious what’s going on. But people seem to be stuck on stupid until it starts to hurt them directly. Look at the immigration stuff. Deporting the wrong people. That should tell you right there, this dude is seriously messed up. And yet people still want to give him another chance. Like, “Oh yeah, wait, hold up, n*****, go home.” I’m one of those, but you can’t send me back to Africa. My home is here. I’m American. I’ve got majority American Indian in me, a little Irish, some Moroccan. So if you want to send me home, send me right here, this is my home.
I love how you call this stuff out not only on the new album, but on albums throughout your career. You end Stockholm Syndrome with the song “Love is Love.” That’s what I appreciate about you. You look at the full picture. It’s not just negativity and fighting the power.
ANGELO: Love is where we all need to be. That’s a no-brainer, right? But people forget the obvious, that we all need to love one another. That song is necessary. No matter how crazy the album gets – trauma, abuse, all the madness – it ends with “Love is Love”. No matter what you’ve gone through, or what kind of trauma or Stockholm Syndrome you’re dealing with, love is still love. That’s just a good reminder. A reminder of where we should be.
The older I get, the less I retain lyrics. I can probably sing along with most of the songs on Truth & Soul but I’m not sure I can do the same with Stockholm Syndrome. Besides the songs we’ve already discussed, are there any others that really stand out to you?
ANGELO: When you said, “The older you get,” that’s actually the start of one of my poems. “The older you get, the more magic you accumulate / The more magic you accumulate, the more illusions you create / Making the onlooker convinced that there is no rest in the hinges of the next turning of the page of age.”
The songs that stand out. Well, there’s “Secret Police.” It’s kind of like Bauhaus, kind of goth. It talks about some of the murders that have happened—like that guy who went into the church and shot all those Black people. Or Columbine. Or all these mass shootings done with high-powered weapons—sometimes racially motivated, and then the perpetrators get away with it. So I thought, well, they must be part of the secret police.
Then there’s “Gelato the Clown.” That one’s an anti-bullying song. Because bullies never really win in the end. If it ain’t a bigger bully that gets ’em, it’s karma.
And then “Dog Eat Dog,” which is about getting your masters back from the record company. A lot of artists sign contracts not knowing what words like perpetuity mean. Then, next thing you know, your music is locked up, sitting on a shelf because they’ve moved on to someone younger and prettier. If you had your own masters, you could do what you want with your art—earn from it, share it, own it.
And that reminds me of this whole internet thing – Spotify, Amazon, whatever. People put their music on these platforms for everyone to hear for close to free. Even though the whole world gets to hear it, the artists barely get paid. I mean, they do, technically, but it’s such an insulting amount of money considering how much work goes into creating the music. You’re putting your soul into this thing, and in the end, you might not even get compensated for it.
That’s really been messing with me lately. We’ve got to put our music out there, but nobody likes to work for free. So with this new album—we’ve got vinyl coming, CDs, we’re trying to do USB drives too for people who don’t have turntables or CD players. We’re going to make sure people can physically get the album at shows, support the artist, take it home, take it out of the sleeve, put it on the turntable, and read the lyrics. That’s what I used to do when I was a kid. I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.
Not just reading lyrics. I remember seeing your name in credits on other albums, like on a Thelonious Monster album. I’m like, “Yo, that’s Angelo from Fishbone!” I wouldn’t have known that if I was just streaming it on Spotify.
ANGELO: Right? You wouldn’t have known. They don’t tell you that stuff. It’s the abbreviated experience. A lot of kids today—they don’t know anything else. They’ve grown up on the abbreviated experience. They don’t know that you can look at the credits, read the lyrics, hold something in your hands. And now, when people buy a vinyl or a CD, half of them don’t even open it. They keep it sealed and put it on the shelf like it’s art.
In terms of ownership, do you own everything now? Are you going to be able to control the back catalog?
ANGELO: Yeah, man, we figured out how to get that stuff out of there. But that’s another thing, record companies don’t tell you everything in those contracts. You need someone to go through it with a fine-tooth comb and a magnifying glass just to find the loopholes.
When the band X got their masters back, I was like, “Oh man, finally, somebody did it.” I wondered if we could do the same. So our manager Pablo—he made it happen. He got our masters back. And now, you know, get paid like a half a penny or a nickel for it still.
Will you start reissuing albums like The Reality of My Surroundings on vinyl?
ANGELO: You know, we might, because now that we own our own stuff, we can do that.
You’ve had people come in and out of the band. Now that Chris and Spacey T. are back, is it comforting to look around and see familiar faces? And, is it exciting to have the newer guys bring something different?
ANGELO: That definitely is a factor. Seeing Chris and Spacey T. there, it’s a familiar energy. They were there, then they were gone, and now they’re back. There’s a familiar vibe to how they play and interpret music.
And then there’s Hassan on drums, King James on bass, and JS the Friendly Giant on trumpet. They bring a whole new energy and a new interpretation of what Fishbone is. That’s where it gets a little challenging for me, in a good way, because they bring a fresh perspective in how they interpret the music. Which is new for me. And that’s good, man. It helps with the rebirthing process. Fresh, new, reworking, it’s all part of the evolution.
The big question is, does Angelo Moore ever get tired?
ANGELO: Sure.
Everything I see – live shows, videos – you’re just on. I know I’m seeing like two minutes of your day, but it looks like you never slow down.
ANGELO: Well, yeah. When the show hits and the music starts, I’m just glad I can still access that magic. Catch those Holy Ghost moments, you know? But beyond that, I’ve been sober since 2020. I got sober during the quarantine.
That was probably either really easy or really tough.
ANGELO: It was easy. During the quarantine, I know it wasn’t a good time for a lot of people, but for me? I got the most done. I had a little TV show called The Mirror of What. I wrote songs, made videos—it was a lot of soul-searching. Sobering up. And now that I’ve got all that, and the program under my belt, I can handle these different projects. Including Fishbone, and another one called Dr. MadVibe and the Missing Links.That’s a seven-piece. I’m playing organ in that one. You see that organ right there? That’s what I’m playing along with the saxophone. And then there’s another project called A Brand New Step. It’s kind of electronic dance, hip-hop, soul, reggae—a mix of everything. We just put out an album called Perceptions.
That’s what I’m saying, it doesn’t sound like you ever slow down.
ANGELO: I’m on my third album with those guys. They’re based out of the Bay Area. Jim Greer’s in it. Jim Greer and Chris Jensen. We’ve done a lot of collaborations with different people in that project. A lot of great videos on YouTube.
It sounds like you don’t sleep. You’ve got so many things going on.
ANGELO: Man, look, I had to get other stuff going on. Fishbone, at one point, it became… I call it Fishbone Penitentiary. I couldn’t manifest a lot of my ideas toward the end of that last phase of Fishbone. Too much ego, pride, dysfunction, abuse. Things just weren’t getting done. A lot of songs started, not finished.
Even before it got too bad, I saw it coming. So I started another band to get the music out of my head. You can’t just keep songs in your head and leave them there. That’ll drive you crazy. So with the Missing Links and the Brand New Step, I was able to get a lot of ideas out while Fishbone was going through what it was going through at the time.
It’s been something like 19 years since the last Fishbone full length, Still Stuck in Your Throat.
ANGELO: Yeah… hell, man, I can’t count. But I might be the worst person to ask that question. I’m so in it, I can’t tell anymore. I’ve been in the middle of it, seeing people come and go. All I know is to be on 100… 200 when the show starts and the music’s happening.
When you were in the Fishbone Penitentiary, was there ever a thought that Fishbone might be done? Or was it more like: let it ride out, let it correct itself, and get back to it fresh someday?
ANGELO: Yeah, it was kind of like that. I also thought, man, as much as I’m trying to preserve what was there—and we went to therapy and everything—as many attempts as we made to hold on, it just kept heading in a certain direction. So I looked at it as an evolutionary process, which, a lot of the time, doesn’t even have anything to do with the human. It’s just the road we’re designated to walk.
That’s something you can’t always see in front of you. But you know it’s happening. You feel it steering you, no matter how much you’re trying to paddle or swim the other way. Whatever the currents are, they’re making you drift where they want you to go. Next thing you know, people you never thought would leave are gone. Some are even dying, stepping off the planet. And then you look around and go, “Oh… I’m still here. Oh, look, there’s Chris. Oh shit, there’s Spacey T, too.”
Meanwhile, Norwood, Walt, Jonn Steward, they’re gone. Mark Phillips, too. Everyone’s disappearing in front of me, but then other people are reappearing. And instead of questioning it too much, I just accepted it and ride with it. I’m just thankful it’s still something worth riding.
The other project I wanted to ask about was the thing you did with George Lynch of Dokken.
ANGELO: Oh dude, Project Nfidelikah. You liked that, huh?
Yeah. But you know what? You have such a recognizable style and voice that it didn’t sound like a George Lynch record that you were guesting on. It sounded almost like an Angelo Moore record that George was playing on. And maybe that’s what it was?
ANGELO: Well, I’m glad it didn’t sound like a George Lynch record. I was hoping it sounded like a George Lynch / Pancho Tomaselli / Christopher Moore / Angelo Moore record. Because we all collaborated on that. And man, I’ll tell you, there’s one song on there that’s really relevant right now. It’s called “Project Blackout.” And it’s about the white power epidemic in America. That’s why I called it “Project Blackout”. Those lyrics are really, unfortunately, exactly what’s happening right now. That’s one of those songs where I ended up telling the future… and now it’s happening.
You’ve done Fishbone. You’ve got your solo stuff. You’ve done collaborations. You’ve acted. Is there anything left on your bucket list—anything you haven’t done that you still want to do?
ANGELO: I want to go to Africa. I want to play in Africa. I want to play music in Jamaica. I want to play in the places on this planet where I haven’t played yet. Put the music out there. I haven’t been to China or Russia either. And all that stuff is wild right now. But I feel like those places need to hear the music I’m involved in.
Would you want to play your existing music in those places, or collaborate with local musicians and create something new?
ANGELO: I want to do both, man. I want to play what Fishbone has done, what we’re doing now—but I also want to collaborate. That’s a no-brainer. You gotta collaborate with the rhythm and roots that are already there. Hell, that’s part of our roots, too.
What about writing a book?
ANGELO: Dude, I got books! I got this thing called Dr. MadVibe’s Underground Contraband Railroad and a book called The Olegna Phenomenon, man. It’s my storytime theater book based on social studies. It’s got an audiobook to go with it. This is what I sell at the merch table—and off the website. There’s a USB chip in it—you flip it out, plug it into a port, and I’m narrating all of my stories.
Oh, wow. Very cool.
ANGELO: It’s got a bunch of art graphics and a whole bunch of chapters. I’m narrating it all. And behind my voice, there’s a soundscape—comes from my Angelo Show CD, which I did through Kickstarter. I’ve even got a nice centerfold in there. Then there’s merch—handbags and stuff—that look like that art.
It seems very on-brand for you.
ANGELO: What do you mean?
Just that you look at the world in different ways. You’re not bound by left-to-right, top-to-bottom. You see the angles.
ANGELO: That’s right. And there’s a thank-you section too. Gotta thank the haters and the jocks—they made me do good! Then there’s a tribute section listing all the artists. And while you’re reading, you’re hearing the soundtrack—there’s my daughter—and even a coloring page in there. Then a hidden art gallery in the back dedicated to my cousin Bensula, who started me out on this stuff. He really influenced my experimental and concrete art approach.
And I have another book, Ska Du? Au Ska Don’t! That’s my Japanese project. I worked on it with Kristin Forbes from The Scotch Bonnets. This one’s all music.
I’ve also got an art project called Avant Presidents. I do all kinds of visual art, too. I’ve got a YouTube channel, Angelo Moore Fishbone Soldier Number One, and a Patreon channel for all my content.
Like I said, Angelo, you’re doing nothing to disprove that you never sleep (laughs).
ANGELO: (laughs) Yeah, right?
You’ve got a lot of shows coming up this summer. Are you happy to be home or do you still love the road?
ANGELO: I like being home. But I like the road too, it’s good to be out there… as long as I’m not out too long. I’ve got a show this weekend called Operation Unity in San Pedro with Dr. MadVibe and the Missing Links. Then next Thursday I’m playing in Vegas, Punk Rock Bowling, and Bootsy Collins is gonna join us on stage, gonna play some Funkadelic jams. Bootsy’s gonna join us up there. We’re gonna play some Dr. MadVibes, of course, and then do some other stuff. For real, man, never thought that would happen. That’s a dream come true, being able to play with Bootsy.
Then Fishbone’s gonna be at the Grammy Theater. We’re gonna get our Grammy, and we’re gonna get our place in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Well, I’d like to thank you so much for your time. This is a dream come true, I’ve been wanting to interview you since I started writing in 1991. There are three artists that I’ve had on my bucket list – Sting, Ozzy Osbourne, and Angelo Moore. I’ll never get to talk to the other two.
ANGELO: Why not? Why won’t it happen, man?
Well, I did interview Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers, so I got two out of three of The Police. I think that’s okay.
ANGELO: Dude! Man, I didn’t even remember this, but during the quarantine, when I had my show The Mirror What, I was interviewing so many people. I was doing exactly what we’re doing now. I’d play one of their videos, get them on, and we’d talk. All that stuff’s on my Patreon channel. My whole Mirror What series is up there. I want to do it again, but man, it took a lot of isolation.
That isolation meant no distractions. I got so much work done. But now? It’s a lot of distractions and no isolation. Everything’s back to “normal.” But those were some really precious and productive times for me, man.
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For more information on Angelo Moore, visit the Dr. MadVibe website.
For more information on Fishbone include links to merch and tour dates, visit Fishbone.net.
