Anthrax’s twelfth studio album, Cursum Perficio, is the New York thrash veterans’ first full-length since 2016’s For All Kings. Bassist Frank Bello spoke with Big Takeover by video call in late August, a week before the band began a run of stadium dates with Iron Maiden, about the decade between records, the songs on the new one, and why retirement isn’t on his radar.

Cursum Perficio is your first since 2016’s For All Kings, and a lot happened in between: the pandemic, Charlie playing with Pantera, all kinds of things outside of Anthrax. Was there always going to be this record?

FRANK: It was always going to be this record. Like you said, there was the pandemic. We all have families, school, all that stuff. Everything takes you away. You’ve got to be in the right headspace, and I don’t know if we were in the right headspace to write an Anthrax record. Charlie (Benante) played with Pantera, Scott (Ian) played with Mr. Bungle, and I went out with a black metal band, Satyricon, for a whole touring cycle, and it was great. I think that actually helped the record, to be honest with you.

Then when we were ready, we all got together and were piecing music together, and we just had it stored. We knew it when it was ready, and now everybody comes in and does the Anthrax thing, and here we are right now. Ten years is, in my book, way too long, but COVID, yes, and then a lot of touring, side groups, family, life. I would have liked to have come out a long time ago, but it is what it is.

The bio says things really started to come together in 2023. How do you know when it’s time?

FRANK: It started getting together, piecing stuff together, and knowing it was starting. That’s how it is. It’s like in a marriage. It really is. When stuff is brewing, you feel it. You feel out the vibe, and when it’s right — that’s how Anthrax has always done it. We’ve always known: Charlie, Scott and I, we need to get in the room together and look at each other. We tried doing it another way. It just wasn’t right. It didn’t work.

When we write music, Scott’s in LA, and we want warm weather, so Charlie, who’s in Chicago, and I, in New York, fly out to LA. There’s a lot of flying back and forth and staying away from your family. It’s not always easy, so there’s a lot of that going on for a few years.

We know we have to nod at each other — yeah, all right — and we feel that. It’s got to be some kind of magic thing that happens, and we know. I’m happy it works like that, because it’s undeniable. We’re fans, right? We’re fans writing music. It’s got to fit that fire in your gut. And when it does, you’ll know it.

Even without MTV, “It’s For the Kids” has 2.4 million views on YouTube, and “The Edge of Perfection” has 1.5 million. People are clearly still hungry for Anthrax. Were you expecting that kind of response after ten years?

FRANK: The reaction from the first three songs has been incredible. We didn’t expect that. We didn’t know where it was, because it’s been 10 years. You just talked about the numbers and the views, it’s insane when you think about it, because that’s how it is. It’s about numbers and views and listens and all that stuff. It’s gratifying. It makes all that hard stuff worthwhile. To get the reaction we’re getting, and to know what we have in store for people, feels really great. It really does.

Nikki Sixx recently said there’s no point in making full-length albums anymore. Obviously, Anthrax thinks differently.

FRANK: I love music. Everybody’s got their own opinion. I’m old school, and I understand what Nikki’s saying there. I get it, because it’s a different environment now.

For me, just talking personally, the way the band feels, we put packaging together. I love that, even the vinyl stuff. When you see the new record — the vinyl, the layouts, the artwork — it’s just beautiful. It’s an experience. What I like to do, still to this day, is put a record on. I have a vinyl system downstairs, turntable and all that. That’s one of the joys of life for me. I love nothing more than putting my Sonos on, putting on a great record — I was just listening to an old Cheap Trick record a little while ago that I love — and just sitting in the chair with whatever you’re drinking and having an experience.

Then you look through the vinyl, you look through the credits and all that stuff: What were they thinking at this time? What does it bring you back to? I love that whole thing, the journey of a record. I understand there are both sides of it, but I’m speaking for myself here. Some people just don’t like records, I get it. But even if you listen to it digitally, there is a story here. It takes you on a journey, this record, it really does. Each song has its own life, and it lends itself to the next one.

You’re going to have songs that you love and songs that, it’s okay. On this record, I’m in love with all the songs, so it makes me really psyched that the journey of this record takes me to a place, and even finishes in a really strong place.

It’s 11 songs, and there’s no filler. It’s a great start-to-finish listen, and the songs don’t all sound the same. There’s real diversity in it.

FRANK: Thank you. When you listen to the new Anthrax record, there are songs from one spectrum to the other. We’re experimenting, crazy — it’s always heavy. The first single, “It’s For the Kids,” is completely different from “The Edge of Perfection,” and completely different from “Everybody’s Got a Plan.” What I love about talking to you right now, knowing you’ve heard the record, is knowing that we have more bullets in the chamber, where it completely doesn’t sound like any of those songs. Which is great.

It’s still in the heavy vein, and it’s Anthrax, but I was just talking to some other interviewers who have listened to the record, and they said people don’t know what else you guys have. I love hearing that. That’s why we do it.

I have the “I’m the Man” 12-inch, so I know Anthrax will try anything. When you get together with the guys, is there ever a conversation about trying something different, or is it always, “This is the way it’s always worked for us”?

FRANK: If you know Anthrax, it’s always been anything goes, as long as it’s in a heavy vein. We’ve tried everything. I think a lot of people like Anthrax for that reason, because we’re not afraid to try stuff. It’s stuff that we’re into. That’s the whole point of it, to express it. If it’s in us — your mind’s a sponge, everything comes in, and that shit comes out — that’s the good shit. You want to get it out, and I love that we did “I’m the Man.” I love that we did “Bring the Noise.” I love that Anthrax could go outside the box and try things. I love that we can write really heavy songs with great melody. I love the band. I love where the band is right now.

I’m going to buy this on vinyl for the packaging. I love the ritual of pulling an album out and reading the thank-you list. There’s always either a name you recognize and wonder why they were thanked, or a completely random name you can’t place. Is there anyone on your list with a story?

FRANK: Oh, yeah. It’s everything you want from an Anthrax record, and more, because I think we went extra. There are nuggets in the album that you’ll see on the cover, and you’ll understand, and I love that. Let’s block out life for a while and live this one vinyl thing. Let’s open it up and really look at the lyrics, right? For us guys, there’s a whole new generation that never had that experience. So introduce them to that, and maybe it catches on again. Everything’s in cycles in this life.

The most interesting thing about the thank-you credits is everybody who really meant something to us, whether it be influence or something like that. It’s really not just us. I’m always going to go back to my family, because that’s stability for me. There are also all my companies, my bass company — those are all new people for me, and those are the people who really help us do what we do. It’s really important.

Dave Grohl was so important on this, because he was good enough to let us come in. We went to Studio 606. I don’t know if you’ve heard about 606, but it’s a very comfortable studio out in LA. You walk in there, and it makes you want to play. It gets you in a mood. It’s a throwback to the older studios, but it’s updated as hell. They’ve got the greatest people working there. Dave’s got a plethora of gear: guitars, basses, amps, drums, cymbals, everywhere. It’s like another whole section that’s a huge, huge music store. It’s incredible. And then this beautiful studio, where he has this great old, famous board. It makes you want to get up, because you feel like something’s going on. I said this in another interview: I’ll be doing my bass tracks, and all of a sudden Dave will just walk in and start headbanging. That gets you up, you know what I mean?

We’re friends and stuff, but it’s Dave fucking getting into your stuff. That’s great. Pat (Smear) came in one day just to hang out and spread joy, I’m pretty convinced. He just wanted to hang out and listen to it. He sat down on the couch, and we were just laughing. It’s that kind of vibe. Those kinds of people make you feel good, you know?

Sure, I forgot some people. There’s no doubt people are going to be pissed at me, because you always do. Even in my book, I forgot some really close people, like a fucking idiot. I forgot this dude, my friend Mark, who I’ve known forever. And it went out to print. I’m like, “Oh, shit. What happened?” He’s all bummed out about it. I said, “Next one, no problem.” These are the people who either inspired us, or helped us, or are important to us, and that’s the most important thing. And the people who are angry? They were supposed to be on. We forgot.

You mentioned nuggets. The album opens with “Persistence of Memory,” and there’s the 1990 album Persistence of Time. Is that a deliberate connection?

FRANK: Well, just from history, right? You put those little nuggets in there to make people think. You just said exactly what I wanted to hear. Make people talk about it, make people think, and that’ll make you go back to that record. You go back in the history, and that opens up a whole different world that we lived already, right? And now we’re coming back to here. It’s like, wow, okay. I kind of love that. It was like a trigger, as you said. You went right back.

I think it’s important to have those little nuggets, because, oh, this is Anthrax, okay. You’re home. You’re not the only person who’s said that, just so you know, and I love hearing it, because there are a lot of nuggets here. It’s all about celebration, right? We’ve been around, great. That brought you right back there. Let’s celebrate that and come back to this. It’s a win-win.

Is “NYC 93” a nod to the Sound of White Noise era?

FRANK: Raging in ’93. That’s what that song’s about. It’s about raging, and if you were around us at that time, we were fucking raging in New York City. I live in New York, so I went down to meet Scott, and it was a crazy time. It was just a crazy time, but fun as fuck. The song and the lyrics really represent that, because it’s one fucking crazy song. It just keeps going, in your face, and I can’t wait till people hear that, too. That’s going to be fun to play.

“Infectious” might be my favorite song outside the singles. There’s the “Captain Trips” reference, and you’ve always been fans of Stephen King and incorporating Stephen King stuff.

FRANK: Forever. Scott writes the lyrics in our band. He’s always writing great lyrics, and I love when he goes back into that, because it’s almost like a tribute. He goes into it, and he does it the right way. When we go back and forth with melodies, and then lyrics fitting the melodies, I think it really works. It makes you think.

Are you a Stephen King reader? He’s another guy who just keeps doing it — he’s not quitting, he keeps putting stuff out.

FRANK: I was, but not like Scott. Scott was an avid reader, of course, and he knows details and stuff. I think he’s met him a couple of times. But I love where he comes from with that, so I’m all good with it.

That’s consistent good stuff, Stephen King. Consistent, and he doesn’t listen to outside people. It’s a very similar thing to what we do: don’t listen to the outside, just do what comes out of you. That’s what Stephen King does. That’s what we try to do. You don’t let anything from the outside come in, it’s just what comes out of you with music. I think that’s important.

“Watch It Go” shows that thrashy, heavier side.

FRANK: I laugh when you say that, because I think that song is just crazy. It’s a crazy fucking song. The drums are ridiculous, right? It’s fun as hell to play, and you don’t know where it’s going to go. It just takes off and goes. It’s like, what the fuck? You’ve heard it, but I’m interested to see what people think, because it’s another one that’s just outside the box, another bullet in the chamber that I can’t wait for people to hear. It’s going to be fun.

The guitar at the beginning of “It’s For the Kids.” I call it deliciously annoying. I love it, but it sounds like my alarm clock going off in the morning. It pulls you in right away, and you almost want to slap the alarm off.

FRANK: It’s frantic, exactly. It’s the same thing you do. You know how many clocks I’ve broken? Just when you’re finished, you just don’t want to hear it. I get it, but it starts the pace. It revs you right up. You’re right, zero to 60, let’s fucking go. And that’s the whole idea of this rage. This whole album is like that. Just get in there and have fun with it, you know? Be who you are. I honestly can’t wait till people hear the record.

Scott has called “The Edge of Perfection” the best Anthrax song ever. It’s such a good song. Do you agree?

FRANK: A bunch of us feel like that. Most all of us feel like that. Thank you. It’s my favorite song that we’ve ever written. I’m just being honest. That’s all you can do, is be honest with who you are. It’s the song that keeps giving for me. I always hear something different, different parts, and I love the storyline of it all. It’s this epic thing. When people have told me, I feel the same way: it doesn’t feel like almost seven minutes. It just doesn’t. It just flows. And we did that video with Joel Harlow, and I fucking love that. I think it married the song really well. When we play that live, that’s going to be a different animal in itself. But I can listen to that song right now and be just as into it as when we wrote it.

I’d love it if you toured and played only the new record, but I know that’s not feasible, because people are expecting the classics.

FRANK: By the way, just so you know, I would love that, too. But you know it’s a business, and people pay their money to see certain songs, too.

Again, I’m a fan, right? I would love nothing more than to put together a big mix of songs. I don’t even know how many songs we’re going to be able to play. I’d love to play at least three or four [new ones] when we start touring. Maybe five. But mix them up. Make it different on different nights. I just saw Rush — not the new music, but they did so many different songs — because I saw them three nights in a row, and they were mixing up their setlist. That kept me going back. I said, “I have to see this, I know they’re playing this tomorrow.” I want to come from that point of view. I think it’s really important not to lose that, so I love to mix it up, and I think with this new Anthrax record we have the songs to do that.

Like you say, I would like to play the whole record. Of course I would love to play the whole record. I’ll do as much as we can. That’s the way I look at it.

Aside from this record, is there an era you’d consider the golden era of Anthrax? Is there a particular album or tour that, for you, is above and beyond?

FRANK: You never forget, from Spreading the Disease to Among the Living. When Among the Living came out, it took on its own life, and that’s when the whole thrash movement was coming up in a big way. That was the fun ride up, because of a lot of hard work: vans, everybody in one hotel room, if there was a hotel room, truck stops, the whole thing. You work your way into it. That was the payoff when you see it come to fruition — the stuff you’ve been working on forever. You knew it was happening, you felt the ground swelling, and all of a sudden this thing is happening. That was a fun time.

But I have to tell you, there’s another side to it. After the Big Four and our first record back with Joey, that was fun. People say the last two records we’ve had are some of our finest work, and I’m grateful for that. We also had a great John Bush era, which I love. I don’t forget that. I think we’ve had a great run, of both sides. I feel like it’s two separate bands: there’s the Joey Belladonna era and the John Bush era, and now we’re back in the Joey Belladonna era. And for this record, from the feedback I’m getting — I know how I feel about it, but the feedback has been incredible — I feel like the band’s in a really good place. We have new management, a new agent, the band’s clicking, and we can’t wait to play. That’s what it’s about now.

You’re heading out with Iron Maiden soon. What does the schedule look like, and are there headlining dates planned?

FRANK: We’re going back out with our friends Iron Maiden, and that’s going to be so much fucking fun. We start next week in Montreal. A couple of nights there, and a couple of nights in New Jersey. And I think it was California, San Antonio, Mexico City — pretty much a lot of September, a lot of main shows. Megadeth’s on those shows, too. These are stadiums, big places, so it’s always fun. The biggest problem is playing New Jersey, because I’m from New York, and my family, everybody wants… calling me up. I say, “We’re not Iron Maiden. We have this amount of tickets, I can’t get everybody in.” That’s just what happens, man.

It never gets old to watch an Iron Maiden show after an Anthrax show. That’s the way I look at it. I’ll play my set, and I’ll be looking forward to it: “You know what? Maiden’s on in about two hours, I’m fucking going.” I’m still that kind of fan. I’ll shower up and go watch Maiden. That’s the way it is.

There will be headline dates. Everything pretty much will start early next year, because we have a new agent, a new manager, and they have the whole plan, which is great. Some of the touring we’re doing is really exciting, for some of the names that are being bounced around right now. For me, number one, I think there are going to be some great packages, that people will want to see these shows. I know I would. They’re just fun.

The whole idea is everything next year. It’s going to be quite the workload. We’re a touring band, as you know, and we’re ready to go, especially with this record.

I first heard about “Indians” from a full-page ad in RIP magazine. I’d never heard the song, so I called Z-Rock to request it. I didn’t have the history of music in my palm, and we had to hope it was on the radio.

FRANK: Completely different world now, right? It’s at your fingertips: “Oh, really? What is that?” And you have it in your hands. We would have never thought this. But again, there’s a good side to that and a bad side, right? I also like the mystique. A lot of the mystique is gone. The build-up — I miss that. I like having things at my fingertips, I get it, but at the same time, there’s something about the mystique and the waiting and the anticipation that I miss, because everything has to be so immediate now. But it is what it is. You adapt. You adapt to what we have.

When I was a kid, I begged my parents for a transistor radio just so I could listen to Yankee games under the covers at night — Phil Rizzuto, Bill White, Frank Messer. You’re a Yankee fan, too. Did the sports world and the Anthrax world ever cross?

FRANK: I totally get that, and that triggers a bunch of memories for me, too. You’re talking about Phil Rizzuto, Frank Messer … oh, God, those were the days. That was my time also for the Yankees, especially. I’m a Yankee fan. I can’t really get into the new Yankees as much as the old. I think it’s too money-driven, and it kind of drives me crazy.

It’s funny, because some of the Met players used to come to the Anthrax shows back in the day. It was always weird for me, because I’d say, “Hey, dude, I’m a Yankee fan,” and they got it. They totally got it. It was cool.

I met Jeter one time. I met Derek Jeter, it’s funny, in a club in Manhattan. Long story short — I’m trying to make it short — I was friends with Mariah Carey. Weird, I’m not just pulling that name up. That was a long time ago. She was dating Derek at the time, so I was in the club, and Mariah calls me over to say hello. I’m talking to Mariah for a good while, and I said, “That’s your boy? That’s Jeter over there?” She goes, “Yeah.” She goes, “You want to meet him?” I said, “Fuck yeah!” This was ’96, ’97, one of those years. It was right before he got his new contract. She introduces me to him, and I’m shaking. I said, “Hey, Derek, how are you, man?” We’re talking shop. I said, “I know your contract’s up. What’s the story? You going to sign?” He goes, “They’ve got to pay me, man.” And they did. Just so happens, the next week he signed the contract. It was a great move.

A lot of our heroes are leaving us for the next chapter. How much do you think about your mortality as a member of Anthrax? Do you feel there’s still more to reach for, or is there some day when Frank Bello is going to, quote-unquote, retire and just become Dad, Grandpa, that kind of stuff?

FRANK: There’s no time for that. For me, look, we just had Dolly Parton pass away, right? That’s big for me. That’s big for everybody. God rest her soul. That was an angel on the earth. I think that was a gift, you know what I mean? The great ones aren’t here anymore, you know?

So the way I look at life now, at this age, it’s like, life is this short. We’re on the back nine, call it whatever you want to call it. My intention is to live each moment to the fullest. I know it’s an old saying, and then blah blah blah. Nope. The truth is, I’m going to do it. I’m living each moment like it’s my last. Do you know about tomorrow? I don’t know about tomorrow. Nobody knows about tomorrow, and this way, I want to enjoy every fucking second, whatever I have to do to get there.

I don’t know if it’s the last Anthrax record. I don’t want it to be. I will be pushing. I will be going forward, whatever I do. Retirement — what do you do if you retire? It’s like a shark. You die when you stop swimming, right? I don’t believe in that. I’m lucky enough to do this. I’ll play for as long as people want to hear it. That’s the way I look at it: write songs and play. That’s the whole key.

We’re lucky enough to have this community of metal that we grew up with, all these lives, and it’s still going. We grew up in this great community that nestled us. It really brought us up. It got me through a lot of fucking hard times in my life. My dad took off, my brother passed, all that stuff — my music came back to me and soothed me. That’s what got me through it, so my payback is, yeah, I’m going to keep going. That’s the whole idea. Why would I leave something that’s one with me? I love this. I don’t see a reason to stop.

My wife is a music fan, but not nearly the way I am, and I have a hard time explaining it to her. My parents were divorced, and through the hardships of life, music was always there for me. It’s never going to let me down, whereas people will. To me, music is a family member. It’s more than just something I casually do.

FRANK: Yeah, absolutely. It’s one with us. When I first heard the songs that I listened to when I was younger, it just brought something back in me. It relieved me from a lot of stress. When my mother and father got divorced, my dad took off. I needed something to soothe me, to be honest. There was no therapy back in those days to go to, right? We didn’t talk about that stuff. My therapy was music, and it’s like, all right, things are going to be all right. You never forget that. That’s your friend all your life, and music’s been my pal the whole time through, and you don’t leave a pal. You keep going. This is a journey till the end, that’s the way I look at it — whatever the end is. I don’t know. I hope it’s forever. I hope it’s many years from now. But I’m going to live to the fullest while I’m doing it.

The idea that there might not be a tomorrow really hit home for me with Tom Petty. I always figured, tickets are too expensive, he tours every year, I’ll see him next time. Then he passed. I’m 55 now, and I go to about 50 shows a year, because I don’t know that I’m going to be here tomorrow, or that the band I’m going to see is going to be here tomorrow. I have to take advantage of it today.

FRANK: Dude, that’s such a great point, and that’s why I went to three shows of Rush, right? I want to see what I want to see, because I get it, it’s financial and all that stuff, but it’s special, too. One of my favorite bands of my life, Cheap Trick, they’re playing… I’m not going to be home, but I would be there in a second, because I want to, and this is the time. Again, we don’t know about tomorrow, so celebrate. Fucking celebrate, live! Within financial means, I get it, I totally understand that, but if you can, do.

One last question. When I was 17, I got a fake ID, and my friend and I sat in the car outside an inner-city convenience store for ages, arguing about who should go in first. I don’t remember what happened, but Tone Lōc’s “Funky Cold Medina” was playing, and to this day, if I hear that song, my palms get sweaty. What’s a song that instantly transports you back to something?

FRANK: You’re not going to believe this, because I’ve said it in other interviews. It’s in my book, also. It’s funny, because we were talking about therapy and soothing: when my mom and dad were splitting, my dad took off. I was in a bad way. I was, what, 10, 11 years old. Back in the day, we only had AM radio, you know what I mean? We had these little wire headphones. You put that on, AM radio. So music has always been my friend, soothing me through those tough times: What happened? Is something wrong with me? Why did my dad leave? You question this stuff. It’s real shit you go through.

The one thing that always soothed me — and you’re not going to believe this name — because it was on AM radio, was Barbra Streisand. Always her voice. I don’t know what it is. My favorite voice in life, anyway. Just because of what she did for me back then, I felt it was going to be all right. I heard the tones, her beautiful voice and the music, specifically a song like “Evergreen.” People are not going to know this from this interview, but back in the day that was on the radio a lot. I remember I was really bummed out, and that song came out, and it took me somewhere else, away from my pain.

When I hear that song, it’s a trigger. I go right back to being 10 or 11 years old, and I breathe, I exhale. My psychologist — believe me, I’ve been through a lot of therapy — said, “You needed soothing.” For whatever reason, there weren’t a lot of things in that day, you put your headphones on, and that took you away from it. It just so happened to be that song and that artist, Barbra Streisand, so I’ll forever love Barbra Streisand.