Photo by Ajalena Dewolf Moura
After releasing a series of albums with Run for Cover Records, Matt Berry decided to put his Americana-pop band, The Berries, on hold. He spent his time as a touring guitarist for Hotline TNT and focused on other projects, including his shoegaze grunge band, Big Bite, and his acoustic duo, Drug Addict. Ironically, it was through all of these different projects that Berry found a renewed sense of purpose and a fresh perspective that brought him back to The Berries.
He now considers the latest self-released, self-titled album a new beginning. The ten songs on the album have an immediate feel with a gentle twang, built on a Midwestern rural rock sound. You can hear shades of Tom Petty, The War on Drugs, and The Wallflowers, blended with the ’70s and ’80s pop influences of Fleetwood Mac.
Berry and producer/guitarist Jimmy Dixon were joined in the studio by friends and fellow musicians, including Kora Puckett (Narrow Head), Corey Madden (Color Green), Bryan De Leon (Ethel Cain), and Julia Lans Nowak, to create this road-worthy record.
The day before heading overseas to catch an Oasis show, Berry hopped on a Zoom call to talk about the making of the album, sequencing songs for a vinyl release, and the music that takes him back to sitting in the backseat of his grandma’s car on the way to school.
From a demo perspective to final recordings, how similar did the songs end up compared to what you originally envisioned?
MATT: For most of it, almost identical just more instrumentation at times. Almost every song had a demo. It was a long writing process. The oldest song, “Salt of the Earth,” I wrote in 2020 or 2021. It was really drawn out, but when I revisited the demos recently, they mostly sounded like the same exact idea. Just a little less instrumentation, fewer hooks and leads. Basically, it ended up exactly how I envisioned, just on a grander scale.
The songwriting grabbed me at first, but the record sounds really good too, especially when listening on headphones. What was the studio experience like for this record?
MATT: My buddy Jimmy Dixon plays in the band. I met him because he was the engineer on the last record, High Flying Man. I didn’t particularly love the way that record sounded, not that I disliked it, but Jimmy really understood what I wanted to do. Over the years we demoed a lot before making this record, recording stuff here and there at his house.
When it came time to do the record, we had split with Run for Cover, so I was going to self-fund it. Jimmy and I worked out a deal to record at his house. We did everything in his lower-level space. Full drum setup, amps in a weird closet, but it worked. Jimmy has a lot of really good amps, which really helped with the guitar stuff. Everything came smoothly.
The production I was aiming for was like big indie records, *Nigel Godrich*-style production. I think we achieved that to the best of our ability given the studio limitations.
How much of the final sound was Jimmy’s talent versus the gear that you have access to?
MATT: Jimmy is a professional audio engineer and mixer, so he has really nice stuff. Even for a home recording, we used great preamps, compressors, all that. But none of that matters if you don’t have an idea for the arrangement and instrumentation to have a sonic impact. The songs stand on their own, but with the nice equipment and great amps we could really elaborate on the songs better because of the studio equipment we were using. Still, you need to play the parts well. I paid, well, got a deal from, two of my favorite drummers in LA to play on the record. Their drumming being good was important.
Every step matters. I’d say it’s probably 80% instrumentation going into the recording. The production makes a huge impact. On the first single, “Angelus,” we spent so much time making sure it sounded perfectly lush and smooth. A song being good is one thing, but having it affect you emotionally, like how an Aphex Twin song can give you an ambient feeling, that’s achieved more through production than playing.
Are you pressing this on vinyl?
MATT: Not yet. Definitely will in the future, but financially I just wanted to get the record out first. Paying for all the recording costs adds up. Jimmy’s my friend and really helped me, but I still had to pay him what he deserves. Once everything was done and mastered around May, the turnaround at a pressing plant would’ve meant maybe October or November before I had the record in my hands. I didn’t want to wait that long to release the songs, so I put it out digitally. It’s a digital world. Then I’ll see what happens. If people want to buy records, I’ll make them for sure. I have a feeling that’s where this is going.
This plays like a vinyl record – the War on Drugs, Tom Petty, MJ Lenderman, Evan Dando, Fleetwood Mac vibes all lend themselves to the sound you’ve achieved. When you’re recording and sequencing, do you think about the format? Are you making this record so that it sounds good on vinyl, if you only ever release it digitally?
MATT: Yeah, 100%. Whether it’s digital or not, I always think of albums as side A and side B. I almost always do ten songs, five per side. This is my eighth album that I’d put out with bands, and that format just makes sense to me. I have kind of a routine: opener first, single as track two or three, a ballad around five or six, and a last song. I’m always thinking about flipping the record, even if there’s no physical record.
Funny you say that. My college roommate in the ‘90s always went right to track three on new CDs because that was almost always the single.
MATT: I’ve heard people say put your single track one, but I’ve never understood that. I don’t want to give away the most immediately accessible song right out of the gate. For me it’s about pulling the listener in and then delivering that hook on track two or three. A single isn’t necessarily the “best” song, just the one people will immediately understand. For this record, “Angelus” felt like the song that people would understand what I’m doing.
The record feels really consistent all the way through. Track six, which would be the first song on side B, could easily kick off the album. There are no filler tracks.
MATT: I’m intentional about every song. “Seventh,” for example, was always meant to be an epic closer. Some songs you include because you think people will like them; others you include selfishly because you like them, whether or not they’d ever be singles. “Seventh” is one of those – seven minutes, “LA Woman”-type song with weird, jammy chords. I couldn’t see the record ending any other way.
I love that. Are there other songs you think of as “hidden gems,” ones you personally love even if they’re not upfront singles?
MATT: I feel like they’re all strong, but “Salt of the Earth” is on the later end with a really weird time signature. Probably confusing on first listen, but I think it has a lot of repeat value.
When I listened to the album for the first time straight through, the early songs are obvious home runs. But “Lie in the Fire Again” and “Seventh” really stood out to me later on.
MATT: Thanks. The record’s definitely meant to be listened all the way through.
Could you ever picture your songs on a movie soundtrack? Do you think about that when you write?
Matt: It’s funny you say that, because that was actually something I thought about a lot on this record. I don’t know, maybe I was subconsciously inspired by how some Radiohead songs feel like they were made to be in a movie. I remember watching Peaky Blinders a while back, there are so many Radiohead songs in that show. It made me think about being intentionally cinematic with production.
“Run You Down” for instance, maybe it’s a little too lyric-heavy and not ethereal enough, but I could see it in a movie. Same with “Angelus,” maybe in a cheesy LA montage or something. Even if the lyrics aren’t “victorious,” the production feels kind of over the top and cinematic.
I recently took a 6-hour road trip and listened to your album as I drove through rural Indiana. It made for perfect driving music.
MATT: Since I started making music, people have told me that. I think that comes from two tendencies I have with The Berries: either lots of chord changes and shifting parts, or the total opposite, repeating one progression over and over with different melodies on top of it, like “Angelus” or “Vagabond.” That repetition can kind of put you in a trance, which is great for driving.
I really like when music does that. It makes me feel calm, almost in a trance. I’ve been inspired by loop-based artists like William Basinski or Brian Eno, the way a simple, repetitive loop can make you feel something without changing much.
Speaking of driving, do you listen to music or podcasts when you’re in the car?
MATT: I usually listen to music. When we were making the record, all I listened to were rough mixes and demos. Lately, it’s a mix, sometimes sports radio because I’ve been obsessed with baseball this year. I’m a Giants fan, I’m from the Bay Area. But mostly it’s music. I always go back to Fleetwood Mac and Fairport Convention. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve noticed I just keep returning to the same ten or so bands over and over.
Paul Simon once said that most people keep listening to the music they first connected with in late elementary or junior high, good or bad, for life. Totally true for me. I still love The Police and Men at Work. Did you grow up listening to your main influences, or discover them later?
MATT: Kind of half and half. Fleetwood Mac is unavoidable, you cannot live in America with any source of media and not hear “Don’t Stop” everywhere. Tom Petty too. My parents played a lot of Skynyrd, Hendrix, CCR. But when I was a kid, emo and metalcore were big. I listened to UnderOath and bands like that, stuff I can’t listen to now. It’s just something I would put on.
I really blossomed when I heard Dinosaur Jr. for the first time. I was 17. That changed everything. Suddenly all the classic guitar rock I’d been around – Petty, Skynyrd, CCR, 38 Special – clicked. From that moment on it was all about guitar and songwriting for me.
If you were an author, would you consider this album a chapter in the Berries story or is it a standalone story that doesn’t relate to other stuff you’ve done?
MATT: I think there’s absolutely a timeline running from the first record, which came out about seven years ago, through Berryland and High Flying Man. Those first two feel like a book together, to use your phrasing. But High Flying Man felt like its own thing. I wrote that back in 2020, and most of the new record was written much more recently. I feel like a totally different person now.
The music hasn’t done a full 180, but it’s diverted down a different path. I’d really like it to be judged on its own terms, not just in the context of everything else. That’s why I wanted it to be self-titled, it’s a bit of a rebirth for the band. I took a step back for a while, I felt insecure about my songwriting and the project as a whole. I’ve found a new voice in it that makes sense for me now.
You played in Hotline TNT and I know that that band is essentially Will Anderson with a rotating cast of performers. Is The Berries like that too?
MATT: Sort of. A lot of people have played in The Berries. The lineup from the early Seattle days in 2016–2017 is completely different now that I’m in LA. But since moving here the live band has been pretty consistent.
Jimmy is very much a part of the band. Not only does he play guitar, he’s about 80% of the production. I add finishing touches and taste, but it’s mostly Jimmy. Kora Puckett, who plays in Narrow Head and has his own great solo material, plays bass and has been consistently helpful and supportive. Lance has been with us a long time too; he’s not technically an original member but he’s been in the band since 2017 or 2018. So there is a core four of us.
I have extremely high standards for how I want the band to sound. It’s not difficult to find someone who is good enough, because LA is full of great musicians, but I can’t have one consistent drummer because people are so busy. Fortunately, live, we’ve been able to play with Ben Lumsden, and he’s been amazing. Corey Rose from Color Green played with us once. We’ve managed to have some great drummers over the the years.
How did you end up playing in Hotline TNT?
MATT: Will and I go way back, like 11 years. My old band Happy Diving played with his old band Weed in Oakland around 2014, and we struck up a friendship. He ended up playing in Happy Diving for the last tour we did before we broke up. I played the first Hotline TNT show randomly in Minneapolis when I was there visiting. I think maybe Will and I were making a music video. We’ve always had this kind of working relationship where he’s made a lot of music videos for The Berries. We hung out when he lived in New York. We had a punk band called Mr. Dusty.
There’s always been like a rotating cast for Hotline. He never asked me to play, and I had never really considered it. And then one tour he just hit me up and I was down. I was kind of at a really weird place in my life when I joined the band. I was deep into drinking and partying so that was an added layer of stress in my life. I had a great time playing in that band, and I have no regrets or qualms about it, and I love everybody who is in that band but it was a lot of touring, and that’s a hard thing. I don’t think Will actively wants to have a rotating cast in his band, he would prefer to have the same people that are consistent. But when you’re touring that much for someone else’s music, it can be pretty difficult to stick around, especially if you have your own musical ambitions. In my case, I wanted to work on stuff with my old band, and I wanted The Berries to start doing stuff, and I just couldn’t really manage doing all of that and playing in Hotline TNT.
What’s your touring philosophy these days? Any plans for The Berries?
MATT: We don’t have anything planned yet but I think we’re gonna try to do some touring. I don’t really enjoy touring that much. I mean, I think I would enjoy it for The Berries, and I think that regardless of how I feel about it, I want to get back out there because I know people want to see us. It’s helpful to the band, and I think I would enjoy it if I just put myself out there and did it. But, we haven’t made any plans yet, partially because my old band Big Bite is getting back together for a short run of shows in September and October so I have to plan around that. Ideally, we’ll do something in November or December. I’d like to get a support slot because a headline tour feels a little funny to me right now. Playing to twenty people in Columbus isn’t the most ideal scenario. [laughs]
Fair enough. Is there a song or album that instantly takes you back to a specific moment in your life?
MATT: There’s so many. The first thing that comes to mind: any Temptations song, or old-school R&B like Tyrone Davis’ “Turn Back the Hands of Time” or Chuck Berry.
When I hear that stuff, I’m immediately back in my grandma’s car. My parents were separated, so I stayed with her a lot. She’d drive me to school along Crow Canyon Road between Castro Valley and San Ramon, through farmland and prairies. Every time I hear any of those songs, I’m immediately taken back to that moment. She’s still alive, and every time we talk, she brings those days up. I guess grandparents are always nostalgic for their grandkids’ youth, and I am too, thinking about her.
