Photo by Samuel Fournier
Imagine the convergence of two sonic alchemists: Jasamine White-Gluz of No Joy, and the cerebral visionary of Fire-Toolz (Angel Marcloid). Both retreated to the hermetic silence of the countryside, a shared, almost mystical isolation where the genesis of ‘Bugland’ (Sonic Cathedral / Hand Drawn Dracula) was set in motion. Picture the “Bugland seshies,” a esoteric pairing that birthed an auditory cipher transcending all known coordinates.
The proof lies in the rural peregrinations: days spent traversing empty asphalt ribbons, the album’s nascent frequencies filling the ether; each subsequent listen unlocking a deeper stratum of revelation. The discerning ear will uncover a treasure trove of “influence eggs,” waiting for the mind to crack them open. Consider the track “Garbage Dream House,” a soundscape echoing the ‘Zooropa’ era, yet stripped bare of all terrestrial pretense, presenting a pure sonic skeleton. Or the seven-minute “Jelly Meadow Bright,” a mind-bending fusion where the raw, vital energy of Josh Plotner’s saxophone, reminiscent of The Stooges’ ‘Fun House’ melt-down, merges with the serene, cleansing vibration of a high-end spa, a study in exquisite juxtaposition.
‘Bugland’ is a fearless dance between the familiar chord and uncharted territory, leaving the listener in a state of delightful, purposeful disorientation. To assign a genre is to misunderstand the project. This is a sonic adventure fit for the archives of the avant-garde, a rightful companion to the groundbreaking electronica of Boards of Canada and Autechre.
This album is not mere music; it is a testament to the staggering evolution of Jasamine White-Gluz, her uncanny aptitude for weaving a complex tapestry of disparate aural threads into a cohesive, fractal whole—a structure that can suddenly erupt into exhilarating chaos only to gracefully recenter its own axis.
‘Bugland’ – a nomenclature that defies the dictionary yet defines a universe one must inhabit. Imagine a realm teeming with the vital forces of the insectile world – buzzing beetles, whispering moths, and serpentine worms—a vibrant, visceral domain where humanity is the intruding anomaly. This is the primal, fertile inspiration behind No Joy’s fifth and most captivating full-length transmission.
Fueled by White-Gluz’s immersion in a more rustic, elemental existence, where the creatures of James & The Giant Peach became her actual neighbors, ‘Bugland’ is an auditory journey unlike any other. Forget predictable narratives; this album is a potent, meticulously distilled concoction, forged with the visionary, high-frequency touch of Fire-Toolz. The result is an experience akin to rapidly turning the pages of an 80s i-D magazine, beneath which lies a hidden layer of National Geographic wonder—a meeting of stylish surface and profound, buzzing reality.
Much appreciation to Tom Avis at Terrorbird for coordinating and to Jasamine for her time and wonderful conversation as always!
James Broscheid: Jasamine! How are you? It’s been awhile!
Jasamine White-Gluz: All right! It’s been at least five years.
JB: Last time I saw you was at The Quarry in Bisbee.
JWG: Oh my gosh, yeah!
JB: That was such a cool show.
JWG: Yeah, that was! That was in, what … ’20, ’21?
JB: I think it was in ’21.
JWG: Yeah, yeah. Wow, gosh.
JB: That place recently closed.
JWG: Oh, did it?
JB: Yeah, maybe a month ago, the owner was said, “I could probably keep doing it, but I’m not going to.”
JWG”: Oh, shoot. Yeah, that’s too bad. Unfortunately, it seems to be a lot of spots are having that same kind of predicament now.
JB: Yeah, and I thought once we cleared the Covid hurdle that everything would work itself out.
JWG: Yeah, oh, too bad. It was a cool spot, cool area too.
JB: Yeah, we live, maybe an hour and a half from Bisbee. So we go down there pretty regularly.
JWG: Oh well, hopefully we’ll get back at least somewhere in Arizona. Dude, yeah,
JB: I think I said the same thing to you about your last record ‘Motherhood’ (Joyful Noise Recordings, 2020) when it came out that it was in the early running for my favorite record of the year. Now I can say the same thing about ‘Bugland.’ You seem to get better and better! It’s amazing because I love all your early records too. Whenever I hear there is a new No Joy record coming out, my first question is “How is she gonna top the last record?” So, how do you do it?
JWG: That’s very kind of you. I really, really appreciate that. I don’t know. I’m never trying to outdo myself. I just don’t want to do the same thing twice. So, in my head, if I’ve already either used a process or a style, not necessarily a style, but usually the process, if I already did record a record a certain way, then I want to try to do it a different way or mix it up. I never want to do the same thing twice. I don’t usually think of it in context of it as a new thing. More like a clean slate. Here we go.
JB: Is that pretty hard to do?
JWG: It’s hard to do, but I am also pretty in tune with my creative process by this point, so I know when it’s time to do it, and I know when it’s not time to do it. So, that’s why there’s five years in between every record. If I rushed to put out records in between maybe they would have been total crap. I try and wait until I feel like I get to a point where I’m confident. In what it is, and sometimes that takes a little longer because I go through different practices or styles or elements. So, it does take a little bit of time. I mean, it seems like a long time ago, but I’ve been working on this album basically since we last saw you in Arizona. Work on ‘Bugland’ started pretty soon after that, so it really takes a long time to come out, but it was actually in the works for a while.
JB: I think that Bisbee date was one of your last shows on that tour.
JWG: If I remember right, we did a couple last year, we did maybe three or five shows last year, but really that was the last tour we did for sure.
JB: Are you still with the same players as you were on that tour like Sara McLeod?
JWG: Yep. There might be a lot more dates this time, so we may be switching it up in terms of who is able to come out and do which dates because of conflicts, but generally it’s the same group of people.
JB: So, before ‘Motherhood’ came out, I was worried that No Joy was no longer. After ‘Motherhood’ I was expecting a gap to ‘Bugland’ but realized as long as you are still putting out music, I don’t care how long it takes in between releases! Anyone who follows you on social media can see your obvious connection to the natural world.
I understand you’ve moved to a more rural location in Quebec. Could you elaborate on how that change of scenery and rural living directly or indirectly influence the sonic landscape and themes of the album?
JWG: Yeah, I think it did a hundred percent. Just being surrounded by a completely different environment, literally environment in this case! If I was out at shows all the time where I lived before, in the center of the city, I was constantly out and doing stuff, and then to sort of slow down a little bit, you take time to notice little things. It’s more of a sensory thing where there’s smells and sounds and colors and shapes and textures and being able to really get to look and notice things that were always there. I probably was distracted by other things before, so that really became something that I was really fascinated by. I have all the apps now where I can check what bug is this? What leaf is this? What bird is this?
JB: Yeah, I do the same thing.
JWG: So, it’s like an endless and fascinating thing, and then also from an existential point of view, it’s very hopeful for me. I find that it’s something like I might not have faith in humanity, but I pretty much have faith in nature because it always finds a way. I think that the natural environment is very inspiring, and I was afraid I might go all singer-songwriter, folk, or country or something (James laughs). In my mind, that’s when you’re out in the fields. Your “up in the cabin” record, but actually the sounds I was leaning towards were way more industrial, even though I was in such a natural environment. I was leaning towards things that could be interpreted as more urban, but they were from nature. If that makes any sense.
JB: Yeah, it does. It was funny because before this record came out, like I said, I thought, “What the hell is she going to do next?” And that was one thing that crossed my mind. Is she going all country, polka? (Jasamine laughs).
JWG: Endless possibilities!
JB: What caught my eye in the bio for the album was a line about creatures straight out of James and the Giant Peach (1996 film) that I had a good laugh about. I was wondering, were there any specific moments or encounters with creatures out in the natural world that sparked any particular ideas?
JWG: There’s tons obviously. Like bird sounds I think are super interesting and of course, bird songs. They’re super interesting, and then the quiet, and the possibility of such stillness being outdoors. So, one sound that particularly I found weird was the sound of worms at night. You could hear the worms in early spring crawling in the leaves. It’s a really weird, trippy thing, and I’ve tried to record it a bunch of times. It doesn’t work when I try and record it, but I swear it’s just worms. They make noise while they’re crawling through leaves at night because the birds are sleeping. I have a very small pond in my yard where there’s frog visitors, and I had put out a seashell and a frog sat in it and then had a waterfall on his head. I thought, “Oh my God, this is crazy!” So, there’s like an element of cartoonish or comedic moments; really exaggerated sort of “I can’t believe I’m looking at this! There is a Bumblebee doing a dance in front of me. I can’t believe I’m seeing you!” Yeah, I think everything was inspiring, and also on ‘Motherhood’ I felt this way, but sometimes I’ll see a color, you know, there’s a tulip that’s this very vibrant orange, and I’m trying to find a sound that looks like that orange to me and try to create a sound for it. As ‘Bugland’ kept progressing, I was apparently thinking more towards what things would sound like, and it’s a little out there! But yeah, I’m pretty much inspired by all of it one way or another.
JB: I think it’s vital for people to get out in the natural world. Not only to see the sights, and hear the sounds, but spiritually it helps me re-center, you know? Sometimes you need that isolation.
JWG: Yeah! I know, it’s so cheesy to say, “Oh, touch the grass,” it’s really cheesy, but I will be by myself and even if you’re just planting a little tomato, one tomato, digging a hole in the ground really can ground you with the world and also get your mind off of other stressful things that might be happening out there.
JB: I agree. Last year after our election, not to go on a tangent, I was so disappointed in this country that I thought, “I’ll drive cross country” just because I love long road trips and seeing places I’ve never seen by going off the beaten bath. So, I intentionally went through the South to go north, and I stopped by the graves of Delta bluesmen to pay my respects. It helped me to be reminded of what real struggle meant because I was so disillusioned.
JWG: Oh God, yeah, it’s a really scary time and it’s really easy to feel helpless. It’s important to be active and sometimes speak up; it can be hard to do that. I honestly find when you have a little bit of hope, it makes it easier so that’s another reason why nature can be healing. It gives you a little bit of hope to keep powering through, and what you know is right.
But I understand. It’s hard to ignore the big picture. When you’re like, “I’m writing little songs about bugs. Okay, maybe there’s more important things.” For me personally, I feel like if I’m in stressful situations, or I’m in an environment where there’s stress, or it’s sad, or there’s other heavy emotions, I turn into the clown. I try to make people laugh and lighten the mood. So, I think that in my music, I’m trying to do that. We’re not ignoring the reality that we’re existing in, but we also just need to have a balance. You gotta take care of yourself as well, and you must make sure that you have a little bit of optimism in there.
JB: I thought the bio was really cool. Can you talk about trees covered in ants and how they represent safety?
JWG: There’s ants and beetles that destroy some plants here. They have to battle them, but then you can go in your head and wonder, “Who is in the right here?” They’re just trying to eat. Their beetles are just trying to eat, but then I’m trying to protect the tree, and you can use that as a metaphor for humanity. But all the bug references, they were all real things that I saw and experienced. I just used it as a launching pad for lyrics for some songs.
Photo by Samuel Fournier
JB: I consider ‘Motherhood’ as your first solo album. You had collaborators, but I thought that record solidified your voice as a solo artist, and so I wanted to ask, how does ‘Bugland’ further evolve your approach to pushing beyond traditional boundaries of the genre? I really do feel artists like you are pushing the boundaries and beyond of what “shoegaze” means, which is what I love because there are a lot of new artists getting turned onto bands from the 90s, which is all fine and well, but some just seem to be replicating that stuff. Whereas your approach has always been, “What can I do next with these sounds and those layers?” I think ‘Bugland’ is the perfect summation of your career thus far.
JWG: Thank you! Wow, that means a lot! Yeah, I think shoegaze gets around a lot these days. I think there’s some weird. I don’t know if this happens in other genres, I assume it does, but I don’t know why people think it’s good if it sounds like another band. So, for years, it would be like, “They sound like My Bloody Valentine,” or “They sound like Slowdive.” Then, “They sound like Jesus and Mary Chain,” and now it’s, “They sound like Deftones.” They sound like nothing so there must be a comparison. Whereas to me, shoegaze wasn’t another band, it was a wall of sound or layers of sound. It was manipulating sound. It was using guitar pedals to manipulate sound. Now, that is, what shoegaze was to me. It wasn’t trying to sound like somebody else. I always felt like if a band is great and they sound like My Bloody Valentine, I’ll just go listen to My Bloody Valentine.
I don’t need to hear a million bands that sound exactly the same. It’s like cosplay at that point, and I find it’s not interesting and the artists that I like the most, in any genre, are the ones that swing for the fences. Sometimes they miss and they try something, and it doesn’t work, but they keep pushing, and that to me is what’s interesting about following an artist’s career. In my head, ‘Motherhood’ was going to be the last No Joy record. When I did it, it was, like, “Okay, I just want to have one,” because by the time Sonic Boom came out (‘No Joy / Sonic Boom’, Joyful Noise Recordings, 2018), it was pretty much solo anyway. So, I thought, “I just want to put out one full-length solo because I have all these songs and I just want to do it. And that’s it.” We’re gonna put it out and that’s the end of it. Then, I was surprised by the reaction, and it was inspiring to me. Then it was, “Okay, maybe we can keep making more!” It was a very different release schedule, so there wasn’t really a lot of touring for the first year because, when we saw you, ‘Motherhood’ was already out for over a year at that point, and so it was a very different release process for that record so? For a while, I thought, “Okay, that’s it. We’ll just wrap it up.” Honestly, after moving out here, I was less interested in spending eight months of the year on the road. As with many industries, it’s the music industry. It’s tough.
Now, it’s streaming and touring is expensive, and it’s hard to do. Part of me, thought, “Okay, that’s it. We’ll just wrap it up with ‘Motherhood’ and whatever we have left we can release an anniversary reissue and things like that. Until I have something else to say, I’m happy with just ending on that footnote. It’s when I met Fire-Toolz that things changed. I had reached out to Fire-Toolz because I heard her music and thought this is crazy. I’m confused. There’s so much melody and chaos happening at the same time. I had demos and wanted to see what would happen. I reached out and asked, “Do you want to try working on a song and see what happens?” She answered yes. “Bugland” the song was the first one we did, and when we finished it, I said, “Okay, this is the first one we did. We have enough. We can keep going!” I think the song “Bugland” was what was inspiring enough for me to keep doing another record entirely.
JB: I half-expected to see you working with Jorge Elbrecht again so your collaboration with Fire-Toolz caught me completely off guard. Again, I love when artists do this stuff to me! It sounds like your relationship with her was incredible, there’s a lot of synergy based on what I hear on ‘Bugland.’ You hinted at it already, but what initially drew you to work with Angel and what aspects of her approach to working most excited you for ‘Bugland’?
JWG: Yeah, I thought her records had the craziest sounds, like so crazy. They were heavy, but they were also pop. Actually, I first heard of her because when we were recording ‘Motherhood,’ Chris Walla (producer, ex-*Death Cab For Cutie*), was engineering some of ‘Motherhood,’ and he asked, “Have you heard this artist? I think you’re gonna really like it.” That was when we were recording ‘Motherhood’ in like 2018 or 2019. From there, I just kept listening, and the music was so complex. It was metal and vaporwave, and same with me, it was just what I liked, too. When an artist confuses me, but in the best way.
She has such great hooks. The music was so poppy underneath it that I could tell she has a knack for melody and for songwriting and understands production and mastering, and all that. I was enamored! I work with Jorge all the time. He’s still one of my closest collaborators. But that was sort of what first drew me to Jorge, was the Lansing-Dreiden stuff. Same thing, I thought, “What is going on here? This sounds insane! I don’t know what category this belongs in or I don’t know what year it came out in! So, I really appreciate it when artists can do that.
JB: That’s what I love about ‘Bugland.’ I love it when an artist can put me in that position of “How do you describe this stuff?”
JWG: Yeah, I have no real way that whenever I try it’s inaccurate. It depends also on who I’m describing it to. Generally, I just say it’s experimental. If I’m explaining this to a friend that has really experimental taste, I won’t say that because I don’t think it’s so experimental! If I’m explaining it to someone at the grocery store that I run into I’ll say, let’s go, Rachel, kind of rock kind of pop, but I don’t know.
JB: Especially when asked what do I listen to or what kind of music do I like from someone who’s not really into music?
JWG: I kind of tailor it, depending on who I’m talking to.
JB: You know, lyrically, the record touches on, of course nature, which we talked about, but also riddles and play and love and illusion. You’re often repeating wording, and so I wanted to ask if you could discuss your approach to the lyricism on ‘Bugland’ and the significance of the reoccurring themes.
JWG: Yeah, I think for most of my career I’ve always taken lyrics secondary because they’ve always come after the songwriting. Even in this case, the vocal melodies were in place, but lyrically they were often after, and they’re often stream of consciousness stuff. They’re often whatever makes sense at that time, coming out of my mouth. I collect words over time and things that I hear people say, or that I saw or when I see something and the word that came into mind at the time, I would jot it down. I would have a list of words to pull from and play from, so I would put those in different orders. Depending on the song. I’m not one for big narratives. I always feel like the music should be open to interpretation a little bit and for people to hear what they want to hear in the song, instead of dictating it. Some songs I want to know exactly what it’s about. Other songs I don’t really want to know, and so I feel like if I leave it vague enough that it could be anything to anyone.
JB: I remember being a kid and I’d get disappointed because I would sing along to songs, thinking I knew the lyrics and then read them later on in life and realize those weren’t the lyrics and get bummed out.
JWG: (Laughs) I know. I’ve had that happen to me too!
JB: What was it about the particular incident behind “Save the Lobsters” that resonated with you?
JWG: I try and advocate for the protection of animals in any way that I can, and sometimes just donating to shelters or volunteering for shelters or fundraising isn’t enough. There was one instance where it was just me physically breaking a cage and bringing lobsters out to sea. The sun was rising over the ocean, so it was a pretty dramatic moment. I had a split second where I thought, “Do I keep walking past, or do I try and do this?” I don’t know, maybe it’s illegal, maybe I shouldn’t be saying that? (Both laugh) But it was cathartic because lobsters can live a long time. The legend is that they’re immortal, but I don’t believe that to be true, but they do live long and the reason they die early is usually because of being injured or caught. It was a moment where I could physically do something and, and as we were saying, in the world right now, there is a helplessness where you want to do more than you physically can because of many circumstances. It was a moment where I could physically do something, and I was able to, and so that’s why that was inspiring in that moment.
JB: Yeah, I saw they pulled a lobster out of the North Atlantic and they determined it was older than the United States!
JWG: Oh my God, yeah! I mean, that’s the other thing too about this. The ocean and the seas … we have no idea what’s under there. We are now. There are probably so many little guys and we don’t see the big guys. There’s so much life under there that we don’t know about and that’s super fascinating.
JB: I think it’s pretty easy to determine where you came up with the title ‘Bugland’ just based on your proximity to the natural world. Is that a pretty good assumption?
JWG: Yeah, you know what? The name ‘Bugland’ was the name that I had from when my partner and I were in our apartment in the city. Our cat went outside one time and came back in with an ant stuck to his tongue! I’ve never seen that, but anyway, he had an ant on his tongue. We’re said, “Oh boy, he’s in bug land!” Then we just kept referring to bug land as the place we were, and once we moved out here, I said, “Oh, this is literally bug land!” You can’t be afraid of bugs because they’re everywhere out here. They’re all over, and you get to know certain ones.
So, we had a little doodle that we made that said bug land with a little house as kind of like a joke, but it ended up being a manifestation of where we ended up. So, bug land is the spot we are in now, but it is a term for home. At first, I was, like, “Oh, is it like bug, like dinosaurs in here? Is it Spider-Man?” It’s my own thing in between.
JB: That’s one of the things I love about living in the Sonoran Desert. It’s such a harsh environment that everything; insects, animals, plants and other creatures have to be tough. They have to be resilient to withstand drought and heat. I just love the fact that we live in an area where things can really mess you up if you mess with them. I’m really fascinated. If I go on a hike and start to hear the rattle of a snake, I’m really curious. I give a safe distance obviously, but I’m really curious to see what it’s doing.
JWG: It’s that curiosity, but you also have to be careful.
JB: Definitely. So you are five albums in. As we talked about, obviously No Joy has navigated various sonic territories. Looking back, what do you see as like the defining characteristics or moments of your evolution?
JWG: I think every time I did; it was a part of a record or wrote a record or had anything to do with a record. I’m usually thinking of it at that moment and not in the context of discography. With ‘More Faithful’ (Arts & Crafts / Mexican Summer 2015), we wanted to be a really tight live band. We wanted to practice all the time and be a super live rock band like that was really the ambition going into it. Before that with ‘Wait To Pleasure’ (Mexican Summer, 2013), it was like writing in the studio and crafting songs as we go; sort of throwing a lot of ideas around. So, each record had its own place, but every time I made a recording I was committed to, and I believe in it while I was doing it, but it wasn’t necessarily thinking about the before or after. I’m privileged to even have done this many records and for anyone to still listen, I definitely have imposter syndrome! (Imposter syndrome is a psychological pattern where individuals doubt their accomplishments and have a persistent fear of being exposed as a fraud, despite evidence of their competence. – JB). You know, there are so many artists out there doing amazing things that it’s I feel, “You really want to listen to me?” I’m still here. I’m thankful for that. I’m able to make music, however I want to make it and be able to get that out there. Being able to always have believed in everything that I put out 100% is such a privilege, and I don’t take that for granted at all.
JB: It definitely comes across that way for sure.
JWG: Thank you.
Photo by Samuel Fournier
JB: I want to ask about the track, “Jelly Meadow Bright.” We talked about Fire-Toolz, and that fine-tuned chaos. After listening to that song, the first 100 times, was that song a result of her direct influence because it transitions from beauty to chaos throughout? Such a great track.
JWG: Yeah, totally. I mean, “Jelly Meadow Bright” was the last song that we had done for the record and starts off with a vocal loop that I had written years ago. I hang on to all my demos! I’ll go through phases where I’ll make hundreds and hundreds of demos and I go through them when I’m making a record. I go through them all. Even ones like that that were from a different reality in 2017. I go through all the archival stuff I have. That was the track that was the most co-written with Fire-Toolz. That was where she really put more presence on the track, and I feel like ‘Bugland’ the song, was the first song we did, and it’s like a nice introduction, and then ‘Jelly Meadow Bright’ She’s sort of like the last song of ‘Bugland’ where it’s like, “There she is behind the curtain!” It’s like, “Who’s been doing this the whole time? Reveal!” Like, “The big reveal.” It’s when I first got the mix back from her. I was driving around, and there was a double rainbow in the sky. I thought, “Okay, this is way too perfect!”
JB: That’s a good sign.
JWG: Yeah, it’s a good sign. She was really steering the ship on that one. It’s so fun to have a duet. I’ve had collaborations before, but not always like that. I had my sister (Alissa White-Gluz of Arch Enemy), on the ‘Motherhood’ track “Dream Rats”, but I don’t always have an opportunity to sing with people so that was really, really fun.
JB: Yeah, it’s one of my favorite tracks. When I heard that track for the first time, I thought you paired up with your sister again! The screams fit somehow.
JWG: Yeah, I think that was a really cool song to leave the album with especially because you’re always wondering, “Okay, what is gonna happen in the future with No Joy?” You know? I think that track sums it up perfectly in that you’re in these phases of beauty and then it is shattered with chaos and then it’s right back to it. Then they’re screaming. It’s really hard to describe.
JB: I agree. You mentioned driving around listening to the album earlier. Did the experience of listening in an environment like that shape your perception of the album at all?
JWG: I think it was crucial and Fire-Toolz and I wrote and mixed this all remotely. So, we were never in the same room together. She also lives somewhat remotely in a rural area, and so we both took mixes of the songs and drove around the countryside on dirt roads listening to it. We were both having the same kind of experiences; in nature, listening to it but in different places. I always do the car test on every record that I do. I feel like I always want to make a record where, I’m sure you know, where you’re driving and you’re listening to a record and you’re almost home, but you want to keep driving because there’s still more to listen to. Or you look for a longer way home because you want to keep listening. I always want to have something that keeps my attention that way. I always go on walks or go on drives and listen to it all the time.
JB: It’s funny you mentioned that because I we spent some time up in rural Colorado on the Western Slope of the Rockies. We lived up there, for I don’t know six years or so, and four of those years were spent in seclusion out on a 130-acre ranch. We were renting a house, and our nearest neighbor was maybe half a mile away. You had to drive a dirt road for a mile to even get to the closest paved road. It was completely new because I had been an urban dweller my entire life. Being that secluded was quite a change in addition to going through a rather rough time. I did get to share this with Shaun Durkan too but there were two records I kept playing over and over during that time. One was ‘Wait To Pleasure’, and the other one was ‘Jinx’ by Weekend (Slumberland Records, 2013).
JWG: Oh, wow!
JB: We were at 6,700 feet in elevation and the sky was amazing. Like you were saying, you’d have to drive an hour to go to the grocery store and then come back so I would find myself extending the drive on remote back roads. I thought, “I’m not going home yet because I have to wait for this record to finish!” But yeah, it was a pretty difficult time for us as a family, so those two records got me through those difficult couple of years.
JWG: That’s great! Thank you!
JB: You’re with Sonic Cathedral for this album?
JWG: Yeah, I personally felt like my music wasn’t getting to the UK as much as I would like it to. Given that the history of? Watch you guys, um, but also just like experimental music coming out of there, so I purposely wanted to find a partner who had an audience over there and then obviously, Sonic Cathedral has a who’s who roster.
JB: Yeah, for sure.
JWG: That was a no-brainer.
JB: I had a conversation with Domenic (Palermo) of Nothing before the LA Slide Away festival last year, and we were in the same boat. We talked about how “shoegaze” is a term being thrown around pretty loosely these days. He discussed leaning more towards not only diversified audiences of all ethnical backgrounds, races and genders but also wanting that in the acts he booked as well, which I thought was pretty revolutionary, you know? The bands had to be good, but they also had to be diverse.
JWG: I think he’s great. I mean it’s no surprise to me that so many bands, are trying to say, “We’re like Nothing,” because they’re just so good. Nicky’s always pushing the boundaries too, and what directions you can take “shoegaze.” Can you push it more metal? Can you push it more with the artwork and lyrically? He’s always pushing. I’ve always look up to Nicky and Nothing because they’re doing all the right things.
JB: Agreed. One thing in the bio for this record that I liked was it highlighted ‘Garbage Dream House’ as “Zootopian without of any U2’s ego baggage.”
JWG: It’s not wrong!
JB: Can you delve into any specific inspirations and creative choices behind that track and any others that standout on the album?
JWG: Well, ironically, ‘Zooropa’ (Island Records, 1993), was one because I have a CD player in my car, and that was one record that I did listen to quite a bit. Even if it was U2. I think going into the record I was super into the way I would describe it. It was like when you get into Warp Records, Boards of Canada or Aphex Twin a little too late. You’re on the bandwagon a little too late. Boards of Canada were a major inspiration because I found subconsciously, I think, that their music is very mysterious, but it’s also very natural sounding. It’s extremely electronic, so there’s this strange feeling when you’re listening to something that makes you feel like you’re looking at a mountain range, but the sound is so synthetic. It’s not like super acoustic or dry. It’s very, very vibrant and very electronic, but the imagery is also very natural. So, to me, that was one artist for sure that inspired the beginnings of the record. Also through the process, Fire-Toolz got me really into Type O Negative.
JB: (Surprised) Really? That’s a blast from my past.
JWG: Yeah! She said to me, “All your songs are in Mixolydian. You know what else is in Mixolydian? Typo Negative. Listen to this!” (Both laugh) Type O Negative was a band I knew and I knew some songs, but I never really dove super deep into it. (Mixolydian mode is popular in genres like rock, blues, and jazz because it pairs well with dominant seventh chords – JB).
JB: I was a metal head way back when and ‘Slow, Deep, and Hard’ (Roadracer Records, 1991) was one album that I played all the time. So, it’s funny to hear you mention them because it brings back a lot of memories. Now with ‘Bugland’, what do you feel are the most significant ways you’ve evolved as a musician and songwriter since your earliest work?
JWG: I guess having confidence or just enough confidence to know … I always have a little confidence but knowing that if you say what you meant to say then it’s a success. If you are able to put out what you intended and in the way that you intended, then that in of itself is a success. I’ve been fortunate enough to work with people like Fire-Toolz, Jorge Elbrecht, and Sonic Boom and learn about production from them. I learned about mixing and songwriting, and learned about different techniques. So being able to collaborate with so many amazing people has helped me be better at engineering my own stuff and producing my own stuff. Learning from other people has really been the biggest takeaway, I guess.
JB: And you mentioned Chris Walla earlier.
JWG: Yes, collaborating with people when you’re writing or recording while learning about their processes is fun. I think it’s something where you must trust your own instinct and knowing where you should take it, so I’ll know if it’s a good fit or not. Certain people work better, and have certain ways, and just being malleable to situations. Knowing how you can form around other people and work with other people. That’s the way I think I’ve evolved.
JB: No Joy did start out as a band effort and has now shifted more to a solo effort with starting with ‘Motherhood’ and now ‘Bugland”, and so I wanted to ask about that shift from a band effort to a solo effort. I would expect you would have even more creative freedom, I don’t know. It doesn’t strike me that you would work with people that were restrictive in the past. How has that shift impacted your creative freedom and the overall direction as a musician?
JWG: Yeah, it started as a band, in the traditional band sense, and we did three records. I am super proud of those albums. In time, people have, you know, their lives. Not everybody wants to be making the same music or keep touring. We started the band, and people were quite young in the band, and you may have other things you want to do. Just for me, I felt like I had more I wanted to do with No Joy, so being solo allows me to collaborate more openly. So, whether with Fire-Toolz or with somebody else, being solo allows more freedom. Sometimes if you’re in a band, you all have to kind of come to the same agreements or make the same decisions. Not that we didn’t. We always did, when we were a band, but I think that if I would try and find musicians to be full time I would ask myself, “Do I think now I’m too much? Now, I’m way too much of a control freak.” Now, I hear something in my head and I’m going to figure out how to do it, and I probably am not going to be able to compromise on that. So I think being solo on the last two records probably made me have more confidence with the creative visions that I have. I’m very thankful for all the years that I have collaborated with three other people to make records as a band, but I don’t think I would have the confidence now solo, if I didn’t do those records with the band before.
JB: You keep putting out incredible records like ‘Bugland’ and you know you’re on the right track! Looking back at the journey of creating this record, were there any challenging aspects? What was maybe the most rewarding?
JWG: Yeah, I think the challenge was that it was all done remotely pretty much. The drums were all recorded in different places, so either I recorded the drums with two different drummers Lana (Cooney) who you met, she was in Bisbee, or Garland (Hastings) who is the former drummer on all the other records and original drummer of No Joy, so he drums on some stuff. We did that in different places and then I would send it to Fire-Toolz. We had my friend Morgan (Greenwood, electronics/guitar), play on it. He was in Alberta, so there’s a lot of moving pieces, and believe it or not, I’m not that organized (both laugh). Sometimes I’m organized with somethings, but when it comes to gear and music, it’s like everything is all over the place. So it took some file management on Fire-Toolz’s part because my vision for it had so many ideas that I was tracking so much stuff. I’d go to her with hundreds of files and they’re not labeled and they’re not synced up and all this stuff so that was I think the rewarding part. We started the song “Bugland” was done in 2022. I trusted myself to say, “I think there’s something here. It might take a while, but I’m not gonna give up on it. I’m gonna keep working on it and keep building songs.” Fire-Toolz is an amazing collaborator, we really were always on the same page. There was never really a moment where I was thinking, “I don’t like that,” or she was like, “I don’t like that.” We pretty much agreed on everything. It took a while, you know, the record was done last year. We were just trying to figure out how to put it out and what to do with it. I had moments where I thought, “Maybe I just won’t put it out and I’ll just spend my day doing what I’m doing now and working in the garden,” doing stuff like that. I ultimately decided to keep going because I think that’s the most rewarding thing. If you believe in something, don’t give up on it so easily. It might not be the right time, but it’ll find a time.
Photo courtesy of Terrorbird Media
JB: Was that the kind of headspace you were in? Did you have a lot of doubt about releasing ‘Bugland’?
JWG: Yeah, I thought maybe we’ll just put out “Bugland” the song and have one song out there to see if there’s any reaction to it. But the winter here in Quebec can be tough. So, I was trapped inside for pretty much six months thinking, “Okay, well, I have nothing to do. I can’t go anywhere, so I’m going to track stuff. And you know, we tracked drums and drove back an hour from the studio in a complete whiteout snowstorm, holding the disk drive thinking, “Oh my God, I don’t want to lose this!” (Both laugh) I guess I had time to work on it and with ‘Motherhood’ too, that album took a little while to come out, but I stuck with it. I think that was always in the back of my mind, too. ‘Motherhood’ was done by 2019. We recorded in 2018, completed it by 2019, and released it late 2020. I remember thinking, “Don’t give up on it. It’s already done, it’ll take time and be fine.” It’s like when you plant something and the first year you plant, it might not come up, but the second year you might have a billion flowers. Just have to wait it out a little bit.
JB: I thought you mentioned it earlier; there’s nothing from your early work that you would go back and change because you’re constantly moving forward?
JWG: Yeah, I like having that stuff as a foundation. I heard something from ‘Ghost Blonde’ (_Mexican Summer_,2010) played somewhere and I was like, “I think I know this song!” (Both laugh) It drew me back to Tumblr and lo-fi, surf rock – it brought me back to an era. I wouldn’t go back and change it. It sounds the way it sounds, and it reminds me of that time, whether good or bad. It’s like a little archive of that moment, like this is an archive of this moment – what’s going on right now.
JB: How do you you got to be relish in the rural environment, right?
JWG: Yeah, I think there’s pros and cons. I see people a lot less and friends a lot less but I do appreciate it. Right now, we’ll talk, you know in five years, when I have another record, and maybe I’ll be over it. We’ve seen the lights record, but like, right now. I’m I’m into it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
JB: Once you put out an album like ‘Bugland’ are you already thinking about the next one at all?
JWG: I can’t think of the next one until it’s out, I can’t. It’s like it blocks me from doing anything else. I feel like it’s a statement I need to make before I can move on. That’s probably why there’s such a gap in between records is that it has to come out before I can start working on anything else. So, yeah, I’m just all ‘Bugland’ all the time now.
JB: And you know each artist is different. I spoke with a musician who recently released an album and I asked if he was going to tour or start thinking about the next record and he said, “I’ve already got the bones of four albums ready to go.”
JWG: Wow, and it’s like, I totally respect that. If somebody writes that much, that’s great. For me, it takes everything out of me to do a song. So, by the time I’ve done one song, it takes a lot longer. To keep moving on, but I completely appreciate it when people are able to churn out songs. I’m envious of that.
JB: Do you plan on an extensive tour for ‘Bugland’?
JWG: I haven’t played most of Canada in a long time. I’d be playing the U.S. really often, but purposely, this time I said, “You know what? I want to have a Canadian label and a European label, and I want to play those places more often.” I don’t want to focus on just the U.S. No offense to the U.S, but why do I live in Canada and I never play Vancouver? I want to play the country I live in. I’m proud to be Canadian. I would love to explore the country more. We have so many amazing artists here.
JB: I’d really like to hear how this stuff translates live!
JWG: Yeah, that will be the challenge. I have to figure that out!
To have a listen or to purchase, please visit No Joy’s Bandcamp, UK label Sonic Cathedral or Hand Drawn Dracula for North America. Reach out on No Joy’s socials here: Instagram or Facebook.
Remaining Tour Dates
October 23 & 24: Left of the Dial Festival – Rotterdam, NL
October 25: Supersonic – Paris, FR
October 28: 8mm – Berlin, DE
November 07: Freakout Festival – Seattle, WA
November 08: Astoria – Vancouver, BC ~
November 09: Lollipop Shoppe – Portland, OR **
November 11: Thee Stork Club – Oakland, CA **
November 13: Zebulon – Los Angeles, CA **
** w/ Shaki Tavi
~ w/ Diles Que No Me Maten
